Episode 88
The Core Confession One Bad Quarter from Disaster
"I am the best salesperson in my company, and that scares me." Leah Bumphrey, Paul Boomer, and Dennis Collins dig into this confession from founders and owners across their combined century of experience with small businesses.
Learn why "hero-based leadership" might be the very thing holding your business back, and how to move from being the "Superman" of your office to a true educator for your staff.
In this episode:
[04:45] The Control Trap — when sales dip, many owners' first instinct isn't a better strategy, it's a need for control
[06:40] The Cost of "Jumping In" — stepping in to fix sales problems gives temporary relief, but the cost of doing it is permanent
[13:09] Stewardship Anxiety — the internal pressure founders feel when growth outpaces structure, and why it's not really about ego
[18:07] Removing the Training Wheels — why modern leadership means teaching your team to balance on their own instead of letting them depend on you
[27:03] Hero-Based Leadership — recognizing the moment your business has outgrown your individual ability to "save the day"
Resources Mentioned
Wizard Academy — a non-traditional, non-profit, non-boring business school with online and in-person learning for owners and entrepreneurs. WizardAcademy.org
The Sales Trust Playbook — a free seven-step guide to help founders find clarity and empower their teams. Download it at ConnectAndConvertPodcast.com
Connect With Us
Website: ConnectAndConvertPodcast.com
Got a "true confession" or a question you want us to cover? Email connectandconvert@wizardofads.com
Transcript
(Upbeat Music)
Speaker:It's Leah Bumphery and Paul Boomer and
Speaker:Dennis Collins, the three musketeers.
Speaker:Here we go again.
Speaker:Back together.
Speaker:Yeah, here we go again.
Speaker:This time we have a new meaning to
Speaker:connect and convert.
Speaker:We're gonna connect you to the thoughts
Speaker:that business founders and business
Speaker:owners have, but they
Speaker:don't say it out loud.
Speaker:But that honesty that we've
Speaker:heard, we have maybe what?
Speaker:Together 100 years combined
Speaker:of helping small business.
Speaker:I have most of them.
Speaker:Well, as you can see, you're over 100.
Speaker:You're over 100, so go over there.
Speaker:Thank you, sir.
Speaker:There it is.
Speaker:Well, we'll go with 100.
Speaker:But we've heard all these, we're gonna
Speaker:call them confessions, like when you go
Speaker:to church and have to make a confession.
Speaker:Well, these business owners had to
Speaker:confess to us or we
Speaker:wouldn't work with them, okay?
Speaker:So we got some pretty
Speaker:juicy confessions over here.
Speaker:You're saying down and dirty.
Speaker:We're getting down to the dirty here.
Speaker:We're gonna take a risk here, Leah.
Speaker:I know you're a risk taker
Speaker:and we're gonna take a risk.
Speaker:We're gonna reveal some of the things
Speaker:that people have told us over the years.
Speaker:These are real stories.
Speaker:These aren't made up.
Speaker:These aren't fake.
Speaker:They're real problems.
Speaker:And here's the kicker.
Speaker:If these things aren't
Speaker:named, they can't be solved, okay?
Speaker:So we're gonna help small business
Speaker:owners, business
Speaker:founders name those problems.
Speaker:And we're not gonna suggest we can solve
Speaker:every problem for you, but you know what?
Speaker:We're gonna give you some
Speaker:insights here from a century.
Speaker:It always starts with talking.
Speaker:It always starts with talking.
Speaker:If you can talk about stuff.
Speaker:And if you don't feel alone, because we
Speaker:talked about this, gents, most business
Speaker:owners end up in that moment, whether
Speaker:they're looking at payroll, whether
Speaker:they're looking at what's going on for
Speaker:the coming year, whether
Speaker:they're looking at marketing.
Speaker:And they feel like
Speaker:they're all by themselves.
Speaker:They're all by themselves with all these
Speaker:people relying on them.
Speaker:So in this conversation,
Speaker:if we can help people feel
Speaker:that they're shored up, that other people
Speaker:have experienced this.
Speaker:That is so true, Leah.
Speaker:It feels better even though you still
Speaker:have the problem to know
Speaker:that other people have it too.
Speaker:And I got news for you.
Speaker:The confession I'm about to reveal to you
Speaker:here, I've heard it more times than I can
Speaker:count on my hands and toes, okay?
Speaker:It's a biggie.
Speaker:If you're a founder or a business owner,
Speaker:and sometimes our owners are not
Speaker:founders, we understand,
Speaker:that's why we use both terms.
Speaker:You can be an owner or founder.
Speaker:This is for you.
Speaker:And you've ever thought
Speaker:to yourself, you know what?
Speaker:I'm capable, I'm smart.
Speaker:I'm gonna figure this blank out long
Speaker:before this, but I didn't.
Speaker:Welcome to Connect and Convert.
Speaker:We've spent decades
Speaker:listening to these things.
Speaker:We've spent decades solving these on
Speaker:video calls in person.
Speaker:They're real fears, they're real
Speaker:problems, they're real confessions.
Speaker:So let's get right into it.
Speaker:Let's start with confession number one.
Speaker:You guys ready for confession one?
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:Bring it on.
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:Here we go. Coming down the pipes, let's go.
Speaker:Absolution, here we go.
Speaker:Sometimes as a business owner, I feel
Speaker:that I am the best
Speaker:salesperson in the company.
Speaker:And you know what?
Speaker:That scares the hell out of me, okay?
Speaker:I don't know, I spend more
Speaker:time fixing sales problems,
Speaker:chasing sales issues.
Speaker:When sales are soft, I step in.
Speaker:Sometimes I just can't help myself.
Speaker:I stay close to the people who are
Speaker:struggling, but I really never have a
Speaker:hard conversation with them.
Speaker:As we got larger, you know, when we were
Speaker:kind of small, that worked out okay, but
Speaker:as we got larger, I can't do it all.
Speaker:And I really don't wanna leave my people.
Speaker:I'd feel awful not helping out my people.
Speaker:I'd feel like I was letting people down
Speaker:by not stepping in to help them with
Speaker:their sales problems.
Speaker:Okay?
Speaker:Let's, what do you think, guys?
Speaker:Sounds like somebody needs a hug.
Speaker:Yeah, let's give them an electronic hug.
Speaker:Come on.
Speaker:There, now we did the hug, but that can't
Speaker:be real, can it guys?
Speaker:Well, so there's a moment
Speaker:owners, most owners don't want
Speaker:to commit to anyone.
Speaker:And that is when sales and,
Speaker:it's when sales dip in your first
Speaker:instinct, instinct isn't about a
Speaker:strategy, it's control.
Speaker:Ah, okay.
Speaker:That's what I've heard so many times is,
Speaker:well, we need a better strategy.
Speaker:We'll know what they're asking for right
Speaker:then and there is actually control.
Speaker:Control.
Speaker:And they don't wanna initially admit that
Speaker:to anybody, including themselves.
Speaker:But what about this idea that they're the
Speaker:best salesperson in their business?
Speaker:With the, Paul, if you were a small
Speaker:business owner, you are a small business
Speaker:owner, but let's say you had a team of
Speaker:staff and you thought you were the best
Speaker:salesperson in the business,
Speaker:is that a good thing?
Speaker:I mean, I can see us, an owner, a founder
Speaker:needs to be able to sell their business,
Speaker:it's their business, but what if you
Speaker:think you're the best
Speaker:salesperson in your business?
Speaker:There is a challenge with that when it
Speaker:comes to, your own clarity.
Speaker:As a business owner,
Speaker:you have pride and you have
Speaker:love for the thing that you do.
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:What you've created and you should have
Speaker:that pride, you should have that love.
Speaker:And it's so easy to reverse it and go,
Speaker:yes, but I have to jump in, I have to do
Speaker:this thing, I have to be the best and I
Speaker:can't leave this up to other people.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:You just bought yourself a job.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:I mean, the other thing is Dennis, you
Speaker:use the term think, think I'm the best.
Speaker:Okay, I think I'm the best at a whole
Speaker:bunch of stuff that I actually know I'm
Speaker:not, but I think I am.
Speaker:But if you think you're the best and that
Speaker:is the reality, then you
Speaker:better frigging change that.
Speaker:Then your hiring practices are garbage
Speaker:because are you hiring
Speaker:to maintain your role?
Speaker:Are you afraid to let
Speaker:somebody get bigger?
Speaker:How are you training them?
Speaker:You shouldn't want to be the best.
Speaker:If you are, then man, you've bought
Speaker:yourself a job for the rest of your life.
Speaker:Let me turn that around.
Speaker:Hold on, when they jump in, when they
Speaker:jump in like that, when they jump in as
Speaker:I'm the best or I feel like I'm the best,
Speaker:that's a temporary relief.
Speaker:But the cost is forever.
Speaker:Oh, oh, oh, oh.
Speaker:Let's talk about that, okay?
Speaker:Let's try to frame it in language that
Speaker:business owners understand.
Speaker:What is that, Leah, what's that costing
Speaker:them when they jump in?
Speaker:Or is it just a natural thing they should
Speaker:do or is it costing them?
Speaker:No, no, it is costing them because
Speaker:instead of working on their business,
Speaker:they are continuing to
Speaker:work in their business.
Speaker:It could be because of
Speaker:a fear of letting go.
Speaker:Could be because they
Speaker:can't hire good people.
Speaker:But, and I think of, I'm gonna use the
Speaker:example of someone in HVAC
Speaker:when they're a truck in a truck.
Speaker:They're one guy in the truck, their wife
Speaker:is answering the phone for them and they
Speaker:can go and when they come to my house,
Speaker:man, I feel great with what, that I'm
Speaker:dealing with the owner that I know that I
Speaker:know there's
Speaker:accountability and that feels fantastic.
Speaker:And they feel fantastic because they know
Speaker:what it is that they're doing.
Speaker:As soon as you hire someone else that is
Speaker:operating under your name, if you can't
Speaker:trust that they're doing that, if you
Speaker:have to follow up on everything, again,
Speaker:it comes down to, you've
Speaker:bought yourself a different job.
Speaker:Working for yourself.
Speaker:And I
Speaker:hear, again, founders and owners say, I
Speaker:wanna scale my business.
Speaker:In fact, oftentimes that's why the three
Speaker:of us get hired, right?
Speaker:We get hired to help
Speaker:somebody scale a business.
Speaker:They've already got a good business, they
Speaker:don't have a great business, okay?
Speaker:And then we jump in there and
Speaker:we find out this is happening.
Speaker:They touch everything.
Speaker:Today we're talking about sales, but it
Speaker:could be all things.
Speaker:I mean, that is a habit.
Speaker:That is an attitude, a mindset.
Speaker:Mindsets in my opinion
Speaker:are kind of hard to bust.
Speaker:What, you know, have you guys ever
Speaker:encountered owners like
Speaker:this in your consulting?
Speaker:It's not only owners.
Speaker:It could be the sales
Speaker:manager that's working for you.
Speaker:If the sales manager is the closer for
Speaker:the team, Dennis, you
Speaker:have tons of experience.
Speaker:If your salesperson must bring you into
Speaker:every call to be the closer, well, then
Speaker:you may as well just be on the phone,
Speaker:calling everybody, making the deal,
Speaker:getting it done, have less
Speaker:overhead, less headaches.
Speaker:That is the worst possible situation if
Speaker:you're trying to scale your business
Speaker:because the buck stops with you as the,
Speaker:or with your sales manager,
Speaker:or you've got to train people.
Speaker:You've got to be able
Speaker:to-- I can't let go.
Speaker:I can't let go.
Speaker:The common
Speaker:rationalization.
Speaker:Sorry, guys, I'm
Speaker:dealing with this cold thing.
Speaker:I'm just like-- Rationalization.
Speaker:You were smoking cigars last night, Paul.
Speaker:I can do it.
Speaker:I wish, I wish.
Speaker:But anyway,
Speaker:the dangerous one is
Speaker:I'm protecting the culture
Speaker:and the confused
Speaker:proximity with leadership.
Speaker:Now say that again.
Speaker:Say that again.
Speaker:That sounds really important.
Speaker:One of the realizations that,
Speaker:rationalizations, that a lot of people
Speaker:say is that, well, I'm just protecting
Speaker:the culture, but what they don't
Speaker:understand is that they are confusing
Speaker:proximity to leadership.
Speaker:They believe that the closer they
Speaker:are, they're being a leader.
Speaker:So in other words, that high touch
Speaker:mentality, they have to rip the shirt
Speaker:over in the big S, the
Speaker:superman S is in there.
Speaker:That is actually hurting the culture, not
Speaker:helping the culture.
Speaker:Yes, exactly.
Speaker:They think it's
Speaker:helping because they're close to it.
Speaker:But let's touch on a
Speaker:very difficult subject.
Speaker:Okay, I've got to look,
Speaker:this is my somber logo.
Speaker:Okay, the somber.
Speaker:We know
Speaker:that many owners and founders
Speaker:are driver-style
Speaker:social styles and have egos.
Speaker:No.
Speaker:No, I know, that's
Speaker:shocking, Leah, but it happens.
Speaker:So
Speaker:how does a person step back from that
Speaker:habit pattern, that ego pattern?
Speaker:We can sit here all day and
Speaker:tell you why it's bad, right?
Speaker:Oh, this is horrible.
Speaker:You should not be doing
Speaker:this, but that's not the problem.
Speaker:They still feel that they should.
Speaker:What have you done, guys, in your
Speaker:practices that have helped these very
Speaker:strong-willed type A, driver
Speaker:type step back a little bit?
Speaker:If you can help-- Yeah, we
Speaker:love, because it's tough.
Speaker:But if you can help them really define
Speaker:what it is they want, because
Speaker:we all get something, right?
Speaker:The three of us get something out of
Speaker:being able to pontificate and say, oh, we
Speaker:know this and we've talked about this.
Speaker:There's a payback, okay?
Speaker:When you're talking to an owner, when
Speaker:you're talking to a client, when you're
Speaker:talking to your people,
Speaker:it's important that they define to you
Speaker:what they want, and it's no different the
Speaker:owner or the founder of a business.
Speaker:What is it that you want
Speaker:and then decide to do that?
Speaker:If you want to be irreplaceable, well,
Speaker:we've seen that, second-generation
Speaker:businesses, third-generation businesses,
Speaker:where all of a sudden the patriarch, the
Speaker:matriarch is gone, it's now the
Speaker:second-generation owner, they can't do
Speaker:anything because it was mom, it was dad.
Speaker:That was-- Yeah, boy.
Speaker:Boy, Leo, that's a great point.
Speaker:You know, how many times, I'm thinking
Speaker:now of half dozen that I've worked with
Speaker:over my career, that the father or mom
Speaker:passed away or retired, and the son or
Speaker:the daughter stepped in, boom,
Speaker:because of exactly this problem.
Speaker:The founder, the dad, the mom, the parent
Speaker:was touching everything,
Speaker:particularly sales.
Speaker:They made themselves irreplaceable.
Speaker:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker:Gosh, this is a real conundrum.
Speaker:And do you want that?
Speaker:Do you want that as a business owner?
Speaker:I don't know, do you?
Speaker:Well, some might, in which case, they
Speaker:want to have a job where they're in
Speaker:charge and they're
Speaker:not answering to anyone.
Speaker:And there's nothing wrong with that.
Speaker:And this isn't ego, but what it is, it
Speaker:shows up as surject anxiety.
Speaker:Ooh, I like that.
Speaker:That comes up with all these, he's gonna
Speaker:have to explain that one.
Speaker:So founders
Speaker:don't do this because
Speaker:they want control, right,
Speaker:they think they don't want control, they
Speaker:want control but they don't,
Speaker:but it goes back and forth.
Speaker:They do, but they don't, okay.
Speaker:But they do because they feel responsible
Speaker:for everything that happens next.
Speaker:And this shows up most, especially when
Speaker:growth outpaces structure.
Speaker:Everything that
Speaker:happens next, okay, I got it.
Speaker:So you're growing so fast that you don't
Speaker:have the structure and they think that
Speaker:this choice is, do I step
Speaker:in or do I let them fail?
Speaker:But that's the thing,
Speaker:it's not an either or.
Speaker:But I've had that.
Speaker:I can totally identify with that.
Speaker:When I would hire new young salespeople,
Speaker:and I love to help salespeople become the
Speaker:best they could be, but I had a problem,
Speaker:true confession, I had a problem of
Speaker:stepping back and letting them fall flat
Speaker:on their damn face because they're gonna
Speaker:lose business, they might lose an account
Speaker:because they did something really stupid
Speaker:and we might not be able to recover it.
Speaker:So my tendency was to step in and say,
Speaker:"Let me help you, let me fix this."
Speaker:Okay, but there's
Speaker:nothing wrong with helping.
Speaker:Oh my goodness, I would be out
Speaker:of a life if I couldn't help.
Speaker:Yeah, but should I get that?
Speaker:Yes, you should, but you have to help
Speaker:them get to a point.
Speaker:They don't need your help.
Speaker:It's no different than parenting, hiring
Speaker:someone, someone on a team, coaching, all
Speaker:of these things where there's someone in
Speaker:authority, the old saying, "If you can't
Speaker:do, then you teach."
Speaker:Well, you shouldn't be doing it.
Speaker:You should be teaching it.
Speaker:Right, interesting.
Speaker:So the question that I
Speaker:have for you, Dennis, is
Speaker:did you or do you have
Speaker:structure around empathy?
Speaker:Because you've gotta
Speaker:have empathy, of course.
Speaker:But if you don't have
Speaker:structure, then it just,
Speaker:it turns into betrayal almost to everyone
Speaker:because there's no feeling of camaraderie
Speaker:and there's confusion.
Speaker:So you're talking about some boundaries,
Speaker:some lines, red lines.
Speaker:And the answer is, I just
Speaker:wanna say that, I love this topic.
Speaker:And if any of you who are listening or
Speaker:watching this want something that you can
Speaker:download and actually apply to your own
Speaker:business, please go to Connect and
Speaker:Convert Podcast.com.
Speaker:And you'll see in the show notes a link
Speaker:or form, fill it out and we'll email
Speaker:something to you immediately.
Speaker:Yes, and you will love it.
Speaker:So we get the fun part.
Speaker:We get to say, "Oh, look at what we see.
Speaker:We've seen this.
Speaker:Here it is.
Speaker:This is the fun part, the identifying it.
Speaker:The hard part.
Speaker:It's like seeing the dessert.
Speaker:Oh, that looks gorgeous.
Speaker:Eating it is fantastic.
Speaker:How do you make it?"
Speaker:That's our specialty.
Speaker:But I think our role here is
Speaker:not just to talk about it, but
Speaker:to kind of normalize it in a way and
Speaker:saying that you're not alone here, guys.
Speaker:This is a,
Speaker:when I was a young buck manager, Paul, to
Speaker:answer your question, I
Speaker:did not have boundaries.
Speaker:It was unconditional, okay?
Speaker:So Jamie is falling down and, you know,
Speaker:"Oh my God, I can't let him do that.
Speaker:He's messing this up."
Speaker:And I would inject myself without
Speaker:conditions, without boundaries.
Speaker:And then I created,
Speaker:I enabled him to continue to come to me
Speaker:and that was not good.
Speaker:And I had to get off of that.
Speaker:If you can't empower the people, yeah.
Speaker:And that's the thing, to help.
Speaker:And they have to know
Speaker:you're there to help.
Speaker:But again, back to what we're talking
Speaker:about, the owner, the founder, who says,
Speaker:"I'm the best salesperson."
Speaker:He's created that.
Speaker:She has made that her reality.
Speaker:And if I am a smart
Speaker:salesperson, oh, why should I close?
Speaker:You know what, I have
Speaker:this great prospect.
Speaker:I can't close it.
Speaker:Let the boss do it.
Speaker:Dennis, come with me.
Speaker:Can you help me do this?
Speaker:Because I know you're gonna be able to
Speaker:pull out of your magic box of tricks, a
Speaker:better rate, or a discount,
Speaker:or a 3D, or something, right?
Speaker:I'm pretty smart, actually.
Speaker:You hired a smart person, because I don't
Speaker:wanna work that hard.
Speaker:I'm going home.
Speaker:You're the one gonna
Speaker:be worrying about us.
Speaker:I never thought I hired
Speaker:stupid people, though.
Speaker:I just did not let them shine.
Speaker:I stood, not stood back, I stood up when
Speaker:I should have stepped back.
Speaker:But Paul makes the good point.
Speaker:Boomer has the point.
Speaker:We have got to
Speaker:allow them to learn how to
Speaker:do it on their own, step back.
Speaker:When my kids were, I
Speaker:remember, to ride bicycles.
Speaker:Maybe you all had this same experience.
Speaker:And their first experience on a two-wheel
Speaker:bicycle is traumatic.
Speaker:They don't know how to balance.
Speaker:So you put those wheels on it, right?
Speaker:The training wheels.
Speaker:And they learn with that.
Speaker:And then a few months later, you say,
Speaker:okay, we're taking the wheels off.
Speaker:And of course they crash.
Speaker:And they drive the bike
Speaker:into the lawn or something.
Speaker:And you let them fail.
Speaker:But Dennis, did you know that you can no
Speaker:longer, you can no
Speaker:longer buy training wheels.
Speaker:They no longer see training wheels.
Speaker:No, come on.
Speaker:It's impossible.
Speaker:Tell me, yes.
Speaker:Because they have realized that training
Speaker:wheels make you rely on something false.
Speaker:You never achieve balance.
Speaker:So now you know what they have, and these
Speaker:things are fantastic.
Speaker:They are two-wheeled bikes
Speaker:that the kids can balance on.
Speaker:No training wheels, no pedals either.
Speaker:No pedals either.
Speaker:No pedals.
Speaker:So they just learn how to balance.
Speaker:They learn how to balance.
Speaker:And yeah, mom and dad are behind you.
Speaker:Actually,
Speaker:I have neighbors and
Speaker:they're two little girls.
Speaker:One was the same age as
Speaker:my youngest, who's now 22.
Speaker:I taught Kelsey how to
Speaker:ride her two-wheeler bike.
Speaker:And because I was not afraid to let her
Speaker:fall, because I'm Auntie Leah, her little
Speaker:sister would not learn from the mom.
Speaker:It almost killed Cheryl Lee to come and
Speaker:say, oh, you know what, she won't let me.
Speaker:I took her out and had her riding her
Speaker:bike in five minutes.
Speaker:You know why?
Speaker:Because I knew she
Speaker:could, I'm not worried.
Speaker:I'm not worried.
Speaker:Like, do I want her to get hurt?
Speaker:No, but I came upon it.
Speaker:I was not the founder.
Speaker:But if she did-- I wasn't
Speaker:the founder, the mom was.
Speaker:But if she did have an accident, you
Speaker:know, or imbalance or something, you're
Speaker:not gonna be there to,
Speaker:oh, I'm gonna hold you up.
Speaker:I was there and she was driving and it--
Speaker:So wait a minute, what I'm hearing here,
Speaker:guys, it's important, take
Speaker:off the damn training wheels.
Speaker:Is that what I'm hearing?
Speaker:Don't even let them
Speaker:on, never let them on.
Speaker:Yeah, so it's just, the shift happens
Speaker:when you stop asking, how do I help?
Speaker:And actually start asking, what am I
Speaker:teaching the staff to depend on?
Speaker:That's the shift.
Speaker:How are you?
Speaker:What am I teaching them to depend on?
Speaker:The stuff we're talking about, the
Speaker:confession part that we
Speaker:were talking about today,
Speaker:basically says that
Speaker:you're enabling people.
Speaker:You're teaching them
Speaker:to act in a certain way.
Speaker:Don't be surprised when they act the way
Speaker:you taught them to act.
Speaker:Is that what I'm hearing?
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:Exactly.
Speaker:Don't be shocked.
Speaker:We are Connect and Convert is sponsored
Speaker:by wizardacademy.com because
Speaker:wizardacademy.com is all about getting
Speaker:the message out there.
Speaker:This is proper
Speaker:communication, this is what you do.
Speaker:Not, oh, can we do this for you?
Speaker:Oh, let us do this for you.
Speaker:And as an owner, as a founder, you gotta
Speaker:decide, not just wish, not just sitting
Speaker:there at your desk like this, oh, I wish
Speaker:I didn't have to do this, I wish I would.
Speaker:Decide you're not and tell people, tell
Speaker:the people working for you.
Speaker:Tell them, interesting.
Speaker:I think this also has
Speaker:another component to it.
Speaker:And we're doing a series here on sales.
Speaker:So we're gonna do more on the topic of
Speaker:sales confessions that owners and
Speaker:founders have told us.
Speaker:And one of those has to do with training.
Speaker:So if you're going to step back, that
Speaker:also presupposes that they are trained
Speaker:and know what to do, doesn't it?
Speaker:And that's a whole nother
Speaker:topic we'll be discussing.
Speaker:That's a whole nother thing.
Speaker:So when
Speaker:you start noticing,
Speaker:when you start noticing when you ask
Speaker:these questions about how am I helping,
Speaker:what am I teaching, excuse me?
Speaker:You actually start noticing
Speaker:that there's less emergencies.
Speaker:It's not necessarily better sales,
Speaker:but you start noticing that there's fewer
Speaker:emergencies going on.
Speaker:So help me see, how
Speaker:does that work in practice?
Speaker:Give us an example of how
Speaker:one of our listeners,
Speaker:viewers could use that today.
Speaker:So I'm not sure exactly what you're
Speaker:asking there Dennis, because what will
Speaker:happen when you start kind of backing off
Speaker:and start saying, okay, what am I
Speaker:teaching my employees
Speaker:to depend on me for?
Speaker:When you start realizing that, and when
Speaker:you start teaching them that you're not
Speaker:to be depended on, what you'll notice
Speaker:isn't that the sales start going up.
Speaker:That's actually one of the
Speaker:last things that will go up.
Speaker:What you'll notice is that things kind of
Speaker:get boring almost and things settle down
Speaker:and there's fewer emergencies and the
Speaker:team stops waiting to be rescued.
Speaker:Then the sales start going up.
Speaker:Is that an immediate thing?
Speaker:I get it, yeah.
Speaker:So you're saying to do some reflection on
Speaker:what messages, what
Speaker:teachings are you leaving them with?
Speaker:And then don't be surprised if it's the
Speaker:wrong message, you're going
Speaker:to get the wrong behavior.
Speaker:Exactly, because they realized they
Speaker:weren't failing their people by stepping
Speaker:back, but what they are finally doing is
Speaker:they're finally trusting them.
Speaker:And what you do with that, how you do it
Speaker:is more important than what you say.
Speaker:Yes, no doubt.
Speaker:You have to be willing to be very clear.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:And then the hardest part is to have a
Speaker:big whiteboard with what your clarity is.
Speaker:And that's what you're saying, because
Speaker:otherwise if you do it enough times and
Speaker:you jump back in and you jump back in,
Speaker:they're never going to learn.
Speaker:They will never swim.
Speaker:So Dennis, tell me.
Speaker:So Paul, yes, true confession.
Speaker:What, yes, what is it?
Speaker:This is about confessions.
Speaker:What are you hearing from
Speaker:this whole conversation?
Speaker:Well,
Speaker:the strongest message
Speaker:that's come across to me is
Speaker:we teach people,
Speaker:particularly salespeople,
Speaker:how
Speaker:we will treat them.
Speaker:It's us.
Speaker:We are responsible for training them and
Speaker:teaching them how we will treat them.
Speaker:And if we treat them as, hey, you're not
Speaker:that smart, you're not that good, or
Speaker:maybe you're good, but you don't know how
Speaker:to do this or that, and you step in, you
Speaker:put the damn training wheels on.
Speaker:And we just discovered in today's world,
Speaker:we don't use training wheels.
Speaker:So why am I using training wheels?
Speaker:Why did I use training
Speaker:wheels back in the day?
Speaker:Well, that's what I knew, okay?
Speaker:But that's why we're
Speaker:talking about these confessions.
Speaker:That's what we know
Speaker:and that's what we do.
Speaker:But if you expect your business to scale
Speaker:and grow, what I'm hearing is you're not
Speaker:going to do it by being Superman.
Speaker:When an owner or a founder gets to the
Speaker:point of recognizing this, they are on
Speaker:the cusp of the biggest opportunity
Speaker:they've had since they pulled the trigger
Speaker:and started their own business.
Speaker:They are right there on the edge.
Speaker:This is a moment of truth.
Speaker:Moment of truth.
Speaker:But you can stay where you are because
Speaker:man, that comforter is nice and cozy.
Speaker:Because I know what I can sell.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Leah, can I just, I'm sorry, Paul, but I
Speaker:want Leah to say
Speaker:again what she just said.
Speaker:That is a very important
Speaker:takeaway from our conversation.
Speaker:Say that again.
Speaker:When an owner or a founder recognizes
Speaker:that they're the best, they are the best
Speaker:in their organization, you are on the
Speaker:cusp of an opportunity
Speaker:to actually truly scale.
Speaker:It's a greater opportunity even than when
Speaker:you started your business.
Speaker:You can change your life and you can
Speaker:change the lives of the
Speaker:people who are working for you.
Speaker:And isn't that why we want to
Speaker:be really good at what we do?
Speaker:I think so.
Speaker:I mean, I always, as a leader manager, my
Speaker:first concern was how is
Speaker:this gonna play with the people?
Speaker:Even though I am a
Speaker:died in the world driver, my amiable came
Speaker:out and said, I want my
Speaker:people to get benefit from this.
Speaker:I don't wanna have, later as I matured as
Speaker:a manager, I said, I don't
Speaker:wanna be Superman anymore.
Speaker:Okay, I wanna be
Speaker:Superman in a different way.
Speaker:I wanna enable them, not have them being
Speaker:enabled by me stepping in.
Speaker:Does that make sense?
Speaker:Paul, I see you probably being in a
Speaker:position to see more
Speaker:potential owners get
Speaker:to this moment of truth.
Speaker:I'll put it this way.
Speaker:What I'm hearing in this
Speaker:confession isn't about sales at all.
Speaker:What it is, it's about a moment a founder
Speaker:realizes the business has outgrown
Speaker:hero-based leadership.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Hero-based leadership.
Speaker:Paul, why do you get
Speaker:all these good phrases?
Speaker:Where do you do?
Speaker:You're the phrase man.
Speaker:I think we need a little TM
Speaker:over on top of each of them.
Speaker:How do you call that again?
Speaker:Say it again, hero?
Speaker:Hero-based leadership.
Speaker:And that's what we've
Speaker:been talking about, right?
Speaker:That's what we've been talking about all
Speaker:this whole entire time.
Speaker:And where I get them, it's from a lot of
Speaker:reading, a lot of
Speaker:conversations, a lot of deep conversations.
Speaker:Well, that kind of really
Speaker:puts a cap on it, doesn't it?
Speaker:And that's why we offer the download.
Speaker:Yeah, we do.
Speaker:And it's called the Sales Trust Playbook,
Speaker:the Sales Trust Playbook, okay?
Speaker:And it is designed specifically for
Speaker:business founders and business owners.
Speaker:It's not for a salesperson.
Speaker:It might not even be for a sales manager.
Speaker:Ah, could be.
Speaker:But if you're a founder, an owner, and
Speaker:you say, "I need some clarity
Speaker:about this whole sales thing."
Speaker:It's a seven step playbook that you can
Speaker:put into action almost immediately.
Speaker:And Paul, remind them
Speaker:again how they can get that.
Speaker:Go to connectandconvertpodcast.com.
Speaker:And in the show notes for every single
Speaker:episode that we've had, all
Speaker:currently 86, keep drawing.
Speaker:You'll find a link in the
Speaker:show notes to do just that.
Speaker:Excellent.
Speaker:Excellent, excellent, excellent.
Speaker:This has been a good discussion, guys.
Speaker:I thank you.
Speaker:I think we, I hope we helped someone out
Speaker:there who's not saying this out loud.
Speaker:I can smell it.
Speaker:I know we did.
Speaker:And if you want, here's another thing.
Speaker:This podcast is about you, okay?
Speaker:It's not about us.
Speaker:We're just the facilitators.
Speaker:We wanna hear your true confessions.
Speaker:And you don't even have
Speaker:to sign your damn name.
Speaker:Just send it to us.
Speaker:What's your confession?
Speaker:What's that thing that
Speaker:keeps you up at night?
Speaker:What's that thing that keeps coming back
Speaker:and saying, "Oh man, I should be better
Speaker:at this, but I'm not."
Speaker:And it's hurting me and my business.
Speaker:And it's making you do
Speaker:things you shouldn't be doing.
Speaker:And it's causing you to
Speaker:not be the best you can be.
Speaker:We wanna hear from you.
Speaker:Paul, how can they
Speaker:ask their questions?
Speaker:What's the best way to do it?
Speaker:Connect and Convert at
Speaker:WizardofAds.com, I think it is.
Speaker:Yep, that's us.
Speaker:Oh, okay, Connect and Convert at
Speaker:WizardofAds.com, okay?
Speaker:So hey, this is about honest
Speaker:conversations for founders and owners, so
Speaker:you can make better decisions.
Speaker:Connect and Convert,
Speaker:signing off for this episode.
Speaker:Stay tuned, we're coming back with more.
Speaker:(Upbeat Music)
