Episode 88
Why Your Accidental Sales Process is a Disaster Waiting to Happen
Is your revenue based on luck instead of a repeatable system? Dennis Collins, Leah Bumphrey, and Paul Boomer tackle the fear that keeps founders up at night: the realization that their sales process is really just a collection of random activities held together by hope.
If you feel like you're "one bad quarter away from disaster," this episode is for you. We break down how to move from an accidental sales process to an on-purpose framework that creates real groundedness for leaders.
In this episode:
[02:33] The "Accidental" Process — every business has a process, but if you haven't defined it, it's probably a crappy one based on luck rather than strategy
[06:04] Reverse Engineering Success — Leah's "easy fix" for documenting your de facto process by working backward from your last successful sale
[06:56] Accountability vs. Consequences — why owners confuse holding people accountable with simply enforcing punishments, and how to close that communication gap
[17:38] The "Meeting After the Meeting" — why mandating change without buy-in leads to revolts at the local coffee shop
[30:27] The Growth Mindset — why the best sales processes are frameworks that allow for individual art, not cookie-cutter scripts
Resources Mentioned
Wizard Academy — a non-traditional, non-profit, non-boring business school with online and in-person learning for owners and entrepreneurs. WizardAcademy.org
The Sales Trust Playbook — a free seven-step guide to help founders find clarity and empower their teams. Download it at ConnectAndConvertPodcast.com
Connect With Us
Website: ConnectAndConvertPodcast.com
Got a "true confession" or a question you want us to cover? Email connectandconvert@wizardofads.com
Transcript
(Upbeat Music)
Speaker:What I like about this,
Speaker:these are honest conversations.
Speaker:These are conversations meant for
Speaker:business owners and business founders.
Speaker:And the goal of these honest
Speaker:conversations is for you
Speaker:to make better decisions.
Speaker:We're here, it's Paul,
Speaker:it's Leah, it's Dennis.
Speaker:We're here on Connect and Convert to
Speaker:connect you with the things that business
Speaker:owners, business founders are thinking,
Speaker:but they rarely say.
Speaker:They're afraid to say them, okay?
Speaker:And we are here to connect you and
Speaker:convert to the honesty, the truth of
Speaker:naming those issues, because until you
Speaker:name them, you can't
Speaker:do anything about it.
Speaker:So we're doing a series on confessions of
Speaker:small business owners and founders.
Speaker:And we chose the sales bucket, if you
Speaker:will, the sales arena.
Speaker:And hello, first of all,
Speaker:hello Boomer, hello Leah.
Speaker:Hey Dennis.
Speaker:Dennis.
Speaker:Glad to be back together with you.
Speaker:We've got another true confession.
Speaker:There are things founders think every
Speaker:single day, but they never say out loud.
Speaker:We have a combined, well, I
Speaker:said it on another podcast.
Speaker:I'll say it again,
Speaker:100 years of experience.
Speaker:I have 97 of those and,
Speaker:no, no, no, that's not true.
Speaker:That's not true.
Speaker:But my point is that
Speaker:they never say these out loud.
Speaker:They're fears, they're doubts.
Speaker:Gee whiz, why isn't
Speaker:this working out for me?
Speaker:So Connect and Convert exist.
Speaker:Leah and Paul exist so that you, we can
Speaker:help you say those things out loud.
Speaker:So you can name those things because
Speaker:until you name them, you can't fix them.
Speaker:We work with owners who
Speaker:are winning on the outside,
Speaker:but are wrestling
Speaker:mightily on the inside in here.
Speaker:And that's why we're here.
Speaker:So let me start off today
Speaker:with another confession.
Speaker:And let's see if you've heard this one.
Speaker:I am constantly worried as a business
Speaker:owner that we are one bad
Speaker:quarter away from disaster.
Speaker:I don't know what our sales process is.
Speaker:I honest, to be honest, I don't even
Speaker:think we have a sales process.
Speaker:I don't think we have one.
Speaker:What we call process looks like a bunch
Speaker:of random activities and people like us
Speaker:sometimes, they don't like us.
Speaker:Sometimes they work,
Speaker:sometimes it doesn't work.
Speaker:And when I listen to
Speaker:sales calls, I do listen.
Speaker:I hear a lot of pitching.
Speaker:I hear a lot of talking, a lot of
Speaker:explaining, and I don't hear a lot of
Speaker:questions and I don't
Speaker:hear a lot of listening.
Speaker:And you know what really bothers me?
Speaker:I can't explain why some of my sales
Speaker:people win and some of them lose.
Speaker:I am frightened to death that my revenue
Speaker:stream could fall apart at any moment.
Speaker:Holy hell, that's a lot of stuff.
Speaker:That's a lot of stuff.
Speaker:Let's define our terms, gentlemen.
Speaker:I know, I guess I should
Speaker:go to the shrink and try.
Speaker:But it's cheaper to go to, it's cheaper
Speaker:to go to connect and convert
Speaker:than go to the shrink, right?
Speaker:So let's see if we can deal with it.
Speaker:Paul, what have you heard?
Speaker:I've certainly heard that a few different
Speaker:ways and different times and
Speaker:it is a very painful thing.
Speaker:So the confession isn't about a bad
Speaker:quarter necessarily, it's about not
Speaker:knowing whether the last one was luck.
Speaker:It's beer.
Speaker:Exactly.
Speaker:It's not a sales fear,
Speaker:it's a control of reality fear.
Speaker:See, Paul has those, control of reality.
Speaker:Now you're gonna have
Speaker:to define that for us.
Speaker:Well, you want to have, you wanna feel
Speaker:like you have control of reality, right?
Speaker:Of your surroundings,
Speaker:but you don't have it.
Speaker:And when you feel
Speaker:like the past quarter was
Speaker:luck, that's not control.
Speaker:That's, well, I'm just kind
Speaker:of going with the flow here.
Speaker:And if something breaks, you know, I
Speaker:won't see it coming.
Speaker:They want to be able to see it's coming.
Speaker:So it is, it is a, it comes out to a
Speaker:control of reality fear.
Speaker:It also feels really good to be able to
Speaker:say, we don't have a process.
Speaker:It's this, it's this, it's
Speaker:that we don't have a process.
Speaker:It feels good to say we don't.
Speaker:You have a process.
Speaker:Yeah, because there's no responsibility
Speaker:in not having a process, right?
Speaker:So your point is you have-- I don't have
Speaker:a plan, I don't have a diet, I don't have
Speaker:a fitness regime, I
Speaker:don't have a gym membership.
Speaker:I don't, I don't, I don't.
Speaker:Yes, you do.
Speaker:You just realize it's crap.
Speaker:It's crap.
Speaker:Let me make sure I understood, because I
Speaker:think this is an important point.
Speaker:You have a process.
Speaker:It could be accidental or on purpose.
Speaker:Is that what you're saying?
Speaker:Everyone has a process,
Speaker:a way of doing something.
Speaker:You have a process.
Speaker:My confession in this confession is, I
Speaker:don't know what the process is.
Speaker:I don't, in fact, my confession is, I
Speaker:don't even know if we
Speaker:even have a process.
Speaker:But I hear what you're saying.
Speaker:But do you know what I'm saying as a
Speaker:business owner in my confession?
Speaker:Right, you haven't have
Speaker:it, you're not defined.
Speaker:You have not defined your process.
Speaker:I have an accidental sales process.
Speaker:Yes, and that's a
Speaker:real, that's an easy fix.
Speaker:Oh, no, it isn't, not for me it isn't.
Speaker:Oh, it's a very easy fix.
Speaker:Start writing down the 10 things that you
Speaker:do, work it backwards, you got a sale,
Speaker:and the 10 things that happened for you
Speaker:to achieve that sale.
Speaker:You just work it backwards.
Speaker:That's your current process.
Speaker:Okay, yeah, it is.
Speaker:Well, Leah, I love you.
Speaker:Just one thing, and Paul, I just love
Speaker:Leah, because she always has a solution.
Speaker:But I don't think my head
Speaker:is ready for a solution yet.
Speaker:I'm still struggling with this.
Speaker:Boomer,
Speaker:talk to us.
Speaker:And that's what I was wondering, I wanna
Speaker:hear Leah, what do sales managers and
Speaker:owners tell themselves
Speaker:when they're in position,
Speaker:in this position of, yeah,
Speaker:chaos.
Speaker:Yeah, what do they tell themselves?
Speaker:I need more
Speaker:accountability from my people.
Speaker:That's what they say.
Speaker:But they're mixing up the word.
Speaker:They're mixing up the word, the people
Speaker:are mixing up the manager or the owners
Speaker:request for accountability
Speaker:with the word consequences.
Speaker:Because nobody wants to be in trouble.
Speaker:It's not my fault.
Speaker:I miss that sale, it's not my fault.
Speaker:It's not my fault.
Speaker:Nobody wants consequences, because that,
Speaker:for me, right here in my stomach, I feel
Speaker:it, and I stop, and it's
Speaker:like, oh, this is no good.
Speaker:But the person that I'm working for, the
Speaker:owner of the business
Speaker:wants accountability.
Speaker:They want to know, am I
Speaker:following their process?
Speaker:Am I following what they've said?
Speaker:The first step is defining
Speaker:what actually is happening.
Speaker:What is the de facto process?
Speaker:And it probably is something different
Speaker:between all three of us.
Speaker:Like between everyone on the team,
Speaker:everyone's doing something different.
Speaker:You have the outlier, you
Speaker:have the one that is just
Speaker:going by the book, you have the one that
Speaker:is just in free fall.
Speaker:You have the other one that is enjoying
Speaker:the flax time and just kinda, as long as
Speaker:nobody knows what I'm doing,
Speaker:the numbers are looking good.
Speaker:Okay, but Leah, that's all well and good.
Speaker:But let me, here's my fear.
Speaker:You just described my sales team, okay?
Speaker:Everybody's doing their own thing, right?
Speaker:So good old Dennis comes, okay guys,
Speaker:we're gonna have a sales process now.
Speaker:It's not gonna be accidental.
Speaker:It's gonna be on purpose.
Speaker:And here it is, read it and weep.
Speaker:Cause you're gonna
Speaker:follow this or get fired,
Speaker:right?
Speaker:That's accountability, right?
Speaker:Nope.
Speaker:That's consequences.
Speaker:You are saying you do it my way or
Speaker:there's gonna be consequences.
Speaker:So everyone's gonna do it their way.
Speaker:Even the ones that this might mess up.
Speaker:But you gotta have consequences, Leah.
Speaker:If you set something in motion and have
Speaker:no consequence for either performance or
Speaker:nonperformance, it has no teeth.
Speaker:You cannot have consequences before you
Speaker:know what is happening, what is working,
Speaker:what isn't working and why.
Speaker:You can't.
Speaker:We started this
Speaker:with our business owner
Speaker:saying, we don't have a process.
Speaker:And I said, yeah, you do.
Speaker:You do, okay.
Speaker:And maybe it's a crappy process, but
Speaker:that's where you do the backward.
Speaker:What is happening?
Speaker:How did Leah make the sale?
Speaker:How did Paul make the sale?
Speaker:How did Dennis make the sale?
Speaker:You have those conversations and you
Speaker:define something that then creates real
Speaker:accountability, a real
Speaker:opportunity to move forward.
Speaker:So let me make sure I'm
Speaker:hearing this right, Leah.
Speaker:And I'd love Paul to
Speaker:chime in on this too.
Speaker:You're saying you've gone back to it
Speaker:three or four times.
Speaker:So I think you really believe this.
Speaker:You've got to document in reality what's
Speaker:really going on first.
Speaker:No matter how ugly it is,
Speaker:you've got to document it.
Speaker:Is that what I'm hearing?
Speaker:Oh, for sure.
Speaker:Boomer.
Speaker:Yes, I don't have much to add only
Speaker:because I believe
Speaker:very much the same thing.
Speaker:Clarity, you must have clarity.
Speaker:Okay, clarity.
Speaker:Clarity in the process, clarity in who
Speaker:you are, clarity in
Speaker:what you do, why you do it.
Speaker:All those things are required
Speaker:to understand,
Speaker:to understand the consequences, like Leah
Speaker:said, to understand what consequences
Speaker:matter, what doesn't matter.
Speaker:And that's even,
Speaker:that's just as important.
Speaker:Wait, I'm gonna jump on that, Paul.
Speaker:You just said something critical.
Speaker:What's important and
Speaker:what's not important.
Speaker:Did I get it right?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:What does that mean in
Speaker:regards to a sales process?
Speaker:So of course, as Leah said, there's sales
Speaker:processes that are documented and there
Speaker:are sales processes that are just
Speaker:mentally kind of chaos.
Speaker:Accidental, accidental, chaotic.
Speaker:You know, this sounds like a good idea.
Speaker:And
Speaker:if you, let's say,
Speaker:and I think you and I have
Speaker:talked about this, Dennis,
Speaker:if you have consequences for one thing,
Speaker:for one person, and that consequence is
Speaker:different for somebody else,
Speaker:or you look at somebody else and look at
Speaker:them at different expectations, just like
Speaker:a child, you're gonna cause chaos.
Speaker:So you must understand what is it that
Speaker:matters to you that is consequential or
Speaker:inconsequential to the
Speaker:process, to whatever.
Speaker:Ah, okay, define your terms.
Speaker:Define your terms.
Speaker:And wasn't that said
Speaker:earlier in this conversation?
Speaker:Oh yeah, that's one
Speaker:of my favorite quotes.
Speaker:Define your terms, gentlemen.
Speaker:It came from some, probably Monty Python.
Speaker:It's Monty terms.
Speaker:I think you're right.
Speaker:Is that who you quote
Speaker:when you're in trouble?
Speaker:Oh yeah, absolutely.
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:That's brilliant.
Speaker:That's brilliant.
Speaker:And you see, yeah, that's one of them.
Speaker:There it is.
Speaker:There you go.
Speaker:Monty, okay.
Speaker:So I'll remember that.
Speaker:So if you don't know, or if you are,
Speaker:if you don't know what matters and what
Speaker:doesn't matter, then you're still in
Speaker:chaos, even if you have a documented
Speaker:system, you have to go
Speaker:even deeper than that.
Speaker:What matters, what doesn't matter.
Speaker:Can I dig deeper on this, guys?
Speaker:I appreciate this.
Speaker:No, you can't.
Speaker:No, no, you can't, because we have to
Speaker:tell our listeners that you have created
Speaker:this beautiful downloadable thing.
Speaker:Downloadable thing.
Speaker:This downloadable thing, and I'm sorry,
Speaker:I'm dealing with the heck,
Speaker:hold on, I'm just, I'm here.
Speaker:The Sales Trust
Speaker:Playbook is what it's called, Bill.
Speaker:The Sales Trust Playbook.
Speaker:And I trust that you can explain it.
Speaker:And I can.
Speaker:This was designed
Speaker:specifically for business founders who
Speaker:find themselves in a
Speaker:little bit of a quandary.
Speaker:What the hell should I do about sales?
Speaker:I know I'm not doing the right stuff.
Speaker:I have issues, I have these confessions
Speaker:that I'm making, and I
Speaker:don't know what to do.
Speaker:Well, guess what?
Speaker:This playbook will get you started.
Speaker:It's seven easy steps.
Speaker:In 30 minutes, you can digest it.
Speaker:In a half a day, you can implement one,
Speaker:two, three, four of those easily, okay?
Speaker:And that is going to make an instant
Speaker:difference in your
Speaker:sales, so give us a try.
Speaker:It won't even make just the difference in
Speaker:the sales, because
Speaker:that always comes later.
Speaker:That comes after implementation.
Speaker:What it does is it gets rid of this fear
Speaker:of not knowing how you're gonna proceed.
Speaker:It's like this fear of this could all
Speaker:fall apart at any moment.
Speaker:When you're a kid and you're building a
Speaker:sand castle, you get big and big and big,
Speaker:and you don't know when that sucker's
Speaker:gonna go, but when it goes, it's gonna go
Speaker:big and it's gonna go hard.
Speaker:So it goes-- Yeah, but I used to have
Speaker:people knock mine down.
Speaker:I don't know.
Speaker:So it goes from we don't have a sales
Speaker:process to we don't have a shared way of
Speaker:making sense of what's happening.
Speaker:Ooh, see, once again, a
Speaker:shared way of making sense.
Speaker:I love that praise.
Speaker:A shared way of making sense of the team.
Speaker:Are you talking about the team sharing?
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:I'm saying,
Speaker:going back to our previous conversation,
Speaker:our previous confession,
Speaker:the leader stepping in as the best
Speaker:salesperson there, well, they have the
Speaker:sales process stuck in their head, okay,
Speaker:we'll document it and then share it so
Speaker:that we don't have, so we have a shared
Speaker:way of what's actually
Speaker:happening or not happening.
Speaker:No.
Speaker:Because if you don't
Speaker:include other people,
Speaker:well, your people are
Speaker:just there doing what again?
Speaker:So are you talking
Speaker:about-- They're random.
Speaker:Are you talking about the dreaded Monday
Speaker:morning sales success story?
Speaker:Oh, hell no.
Speaker:(Laughing) The Monday morning sales meeting.
Speaker:But I feel so good when I'm able to, and
Speaker:it doesn't just have to be about
Speaker:business, it can be about personal too,
Speaker:but we want everyone to have a positive,
Speaker:can you play the violin for me, Dennis?
Speaker:A positive moment that you can go back
Speaker:and you can share, and everyone is gonna
Speaker:feel, okay, and I don't mean to make fun
Speaker:because sometimes you're just frigging
Speaker:excited to say, "Hey, I did this."
Speaker:But it can't, that is the word, like that
Speaker:just, I get all itchy
Speaker:inside when I even--
Speaker:I accrue with that.
Speaker:You know, you just hit something, Leah.
Speaker:I don't know if Paul's ever been
Speaker:victimized by the
Speaker:Monday morning sales meeting.
Speaker:Oh, yes.
Speaker:Leah and I have either
Speaker:conducted them or been in them.
Speaker:We have lived the dream.
Speaker:And that is a topic.
Speaker:Would one of you guys note that as
Speaker:another confession that
Speaker:we need to talk about?
Speaker:The Monday morning sales meeting that
Speaker:everybody hates, including
Speaker:the guy or gal who's running it.
Speaker:Oh, particularly those poor people.
Speaker:But they've been told by their suit up
Speaker:above them, you will have a Monday
Speaker:morning sales meeting, right?
Speaker:Hey, and I'm gonna put just a little spin
Speaker:on that one, is spin it from my point of
Speaker:view as promotions and
Speaker:marketing director of radio stations.
Speaker:I'd sit in those
Speaker:meetings and just eat it.
Speaker:Oh, that's right.
Speaker:I had nothing to say, I don't even,
Speaker:You know, I remember that very well
Speaker:because we all came from a radio
Speaker:background or maybe still in it, but
Speaker:yeah, I had my promotions
Speaker:people attend sales meetings.
Speaker:I'll bet to this day,
Speaker:they hate me for that.
Speaker:They do, they do.
Speaker:Yeah, they do.
Speaker:Yeah,
Speaker:anyway, I got some more questions.
Speaker:So you guys are
Speaker:really helping me on this.
Speaker:Okay, so we've documented
Speaker:what's really happening.
Speaker:Okay, what is the process, whether it be
Speaker:accidental or on purpose?
Speaker:We now know what's happening.
Speaker:And now we say, you know what?
Speaker:There are 20 things that are happening
Speaker:and 18 of them are bad.
Speaker:Okay, so we have to create
Speaker:a new process and we go out and, you
Speaker:know, can we do that ourselves or do we
Speaker:need help to do that?
Speaker:However we get it, we get it.
Speaker:And we now have to install it.
Speaker:What's gonna happen to my team, okay,
Speaker:when I announce in one of those special
Speaker:Monday morning meetings,
Speaker:here's your new sales process.
Speaker:What's gonna happen?
Speaker:A lot of coffee meetings.
Speaker:They're all meeting at different coffee
Speaker:shops in about an hour and a half.
Speaker:So the meeting after the
Speaker:meeting is the real meeting.
Speaker:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker:And what is gonna be
Speaker:said in those meetings?
Speaker:Help me with that.
Speaker:Change can be the most invigorating,
Speaker:exciting opportunity for greatness.
Speaker:And news world.
Speaker:I love change.
Speaker:I love something getting mixed up.
Speaker:Oh, absolutely.
Speaker:Okay, let's talk about
Speaker:those who don't, okay?
Speaker:And that's the big but.
Speaker:If you think that as a sales manager, as
Speaker:an owner, that you are going to just
Speaker:enforce this great big bucket change on
Speaker:people without reason, without their
Speaker:opportunity for feedback, without showing
Speaker:the clear purpose, oh, it's so sad.
Speaker:The human brain can only absorb so much.
Speaker:So there's gotta be three
Speaker:things you're trying to achieve.
Speaker:There's gotta be three
Speaker:things that you're trying to do.
Speaker:And it's not a to-do
Speaker:list, it's a tactics list.
Speaker:What are your tactics to achieve this and
Speaker:how are you involving them?
Speaker:So over time, it becomes clear what it is
Speaker:that you're trying to do.
Speaker:But I am not a fan of the passing out the
Speaker:memo that now we're doing this.
Speaker:You have to be open.
Speaker:So not all, okay, can
Speaker:I go one step further?
Speaker:It sounds to me like
Speaker:you're not a fan of that.
Speaker:And you're also not a fan of just
Speaker:mandating a sales process and not
Speaker:installing it, making sure it is
Speaker:understood and
Speaker:followed, would that be fair?
Speaker:There comes a point when
Speaker:you have to install it.
Speaker:There comes a point where
Speaker:this is what we are doing.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Okay, but it's not
Speaker:right at the beginning.
Speaker:It is not, if you don't have buy-in, if
Speaker:you don't have a reason, if you're not
Speaker:being able to point to the successes of
Speaker:why you're doing something and baby steps
Speaker:towards it, I think you are
Speaker:asking for a full-on revolt.
Speaker:And it will be from the people who you
Speaker:need buy-in from, the
Speaker:ones who are successful.
Speaker:Well, let me ask you guys this question.
Speaker:Maybe those people that were involved in
Speaker:this accidental sales
Speaker:process need to go anyway.
Speaker:Now what do we do?
Speaker:Do we just fire them
Speaker:all and hire a new staff?
Speaker:No.
Speaker:No, because-- What do we do?
Speaker:Well, how do we do?
Speaker:What do we do?
Speaker:Well, how do you know that they need to
Speaker:go if you know that your
Speaker:process has been wrong?
Speaker:Well, you'll know in about two weeks if
Speaker:they're pushing back on the process.
Speaker:(Laughs)
Speaker:Maybe sooner.
Speaker:That's not fair
Speaker:to them.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Well, okay, can I give
Speaker:you a personal story?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:I've done this numerous times during my
Speaker:career. 30 seconds after the meeting is
Speaker:over, my office had a
Speaker:line outside the door.
Speaker:Hey, this is bullshit.
Speaker:We can't do this.
Speaker:We're not gonna do this, okay?
Speaker:This is crazy.
Speaker:Why are you doing this?
Speaker:You just want control of us.
Speaker:You just wanna keep tabs on us.
Speaker:So, how do I, that's
Speaker:my personal experience.
Speaker:I learned as I matured that there are
Speaker:other ways to do it, but we're talking
Speaker:about the bosses now who aren't
Speaker:comfortable doing this, right?
Speaker:They don't know how to do this.
Speaker:What do we tell them?
Speaker:When you're looking at a process, and
Speaker:again, we have to define terms.
Speaker:I'm not talking about a
Speaker:how-to of making a sale.
Speaker:You start with the end in mind, okay?
Speaker:Everyone has their quota, okay?
Speaker:That quota means you have
Speaker:to talk to so many people.
Speaker:This is your average sale.
Speaker:This is what,
Speaker:if your average sale is 10 bucks and you
Speaker:need to sell 100, guess how many sales
Speaker:you need over the course of the year.
Speaker:You gotta have 10.
Speaker:Yeah, the metrics.
Speaker:Knowing that and breaking it down, that's
Speaker:part of the process, and having everyone
Speaker:understand that the whole idea behind any
Speaker:change is to help you sell
Speaker:more, help you service more.
Speaker:Of course.
Speaker:So you start with the end in mind, and
Speaker:then we're gonna define a
Speaker:few things about how this is.
Speaker:We need to know, for example, how many
Speaker:face-to-face meetings you're having, how
Speaker:much new business
Speaker:development you're doing, how many
Speaker:tech turns you're calling on in the
Speaker:results, and getting that information.
Speaker:Everybody's part of that.
Speaker:You're not doing this, you're doing this.
Speaker:Yeah, you're talking about a lot of
Speaker:metrics, Leah, but I see a
Speaker:sales process differently.
Speaker:I see it as a mindset.
Speaker:I see it as a framework, not
Speaker:just hitting certain metrics.
Speaker:That's how you know you're following a
Speaker:process, but developing a repeatable
Speaker:sales process is an art form in itself.
Speaker:I don't know, have you
Speaker:guys ever dealt with it?
Speaker:Well, a repeatable process is--
Speaker:A repeatable sales process.
Speaker:Yes, but not every individual.
Speaker:I promise you that your way of selling is
Speaker:different than mine is different than
Speaker:Paul's is different than
Speaker:everyone who's listening.
Speaker:So that's why it's the big British book
Speaker:of what is it that we want to accomplish,
Speaker:and then how do we do it?
Speaker:So I'm gonna bring this back on track,
Speaker:because I feel like we're
Speaker:kind of going sideways here.
Speaker:Yeah, pull us back.
Speaker:Go back to the confessions.
Speaker:And
Speaker:the Monday morning, this is how we're
Speaker:gonna do it, type of BS.
Speaker:Honestly, and I think you mentioned the
Speaker:Monday morning sales meeting as another
Speaker:episode, I think this one's another
Speaker:episode, because this is change
Speaker:management, and change management is a
Speaker:whole degree in college.
Speaker:So we're getting into things that are
Speaker:really seriously heavy stuff that
Speaker:requires some heavy thinking.
Speaker:However,
Speaker:our listeners don't have
Speaker:time for that, of course.
Speaker:So
Speaker:let's bring it back to how do we
Speaker:help
Speaker:our listeners go from, we have a system,
Speaker:now we've kind of documented the system,
Speaker:okay, we have some things to work on, how
Speaker:do we go from there?
Speaker:What's the next step from, we know we
Speaker:have a system, we know we have a problem.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Now what?
Speaker:Let me make a suggestion.
Speaker:We have our freebie that you can get by
Speaker:going to connectandconvertpodcast.com,
Speaker:right Paul?
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:But you just gave me
Speaker:another idea for another freebie.
Speaker:Okay, and it's not available right now,
Speaker:but I'm thinking about it.
Speaker:Why not do a freebie on how to create a
Speaker:repeatable sales process?
Speaker:Would that be helpful?
Speaker:Step by step, here's how we do it.
Speaker:Would that be something our small
Speaker:business owners would like to hear?
Speaker:I think it'd be-- I mean,
Speaker:certainly-- It's a start.
Speaker:Yeah, it's certainly a start.
Speaker:It's not a finish, but it's a beginning.
Speaker:Well, and we're not talking about a
Speaker:business plan, we're giving ideas.
Speaker:No.
Speaker:Because it is so dependent on your team,
Speaker:it's so dependent on your business, how
Speaker:much information you wanna have back from
Speaker:your team, how much consulting, how much
Speaker:you want them to say what
Speaker:they would ideally like.
Speaker:We are sponsored by wizardacademy.org
Speaker:and it's important to remember that small
Speaker:businesses are as
Speaker:unique as everyone, right?
Speaker:This is not cookie
Speaker:cutter, a small business.
Speaker:But you know what I have found, Leah?
Speaker:You're absolutely right.
Speaker:But there are certain
Speaker:frameworks that you can apply to any
Speaker:business, you know what I'm saying?
Speaker:I agree, yeah.
Speaker:I mean, there are 10 things that, if
Speaker:you're gonna build a sales process, these
Speaker:10 things have to be in there, but the
Speaker:way it sounds in your business and the
Speaker:way it sounds in Paul's
Speaker:business would be totally different.
Speaker:It's the same concept, it's just a
Speaker:different way of phrasing it.
Speaker:Does that make sense?
Speaker:And for the owner to be open to
Speaker:change, as a sales manager, as an owner,
Speaker:as a leader, even a mentor of other
Speaker:salespeople, are you open to what is
Speaker:currently happening or what you think
Speaker:should happen being challenged?
Speaker:People have a hard time with that.
Speaker:Ooh, say that again, capture that.
Speaker:We really have to be aware as leaders,
Speaker:any kind of leader, whether you're an
Speaker:owner, a mentor, a founder, that
Speaker:we don't wanna be challenged.
Speaker:We think we know the right way because
Speaker:it's always worked for us, but what has
Speaker:worked for us may not.
Speaker:I have an example, I moved within
Speaker:industries to a different company, and
Speaker:the initial company I worked for, they
Speaker:had this matrix, a monthly matrix of
Speaker:figuring out what was likely in terms of
Speaker:projected sales, and it involved who you
Speaker:had pitched and a percentage.
Speaker:I'm 80% sure, I'm 100% sure.
Speaker:This guy's 50% sure.
Speaker:I've worked with those, yeah. Okay, it was 100 years ago,
Speaker:but it worked really well.
Speaker:Moving over with
Speaker:the new company, I shared
Speaker:this with a group of managers.
Speaker:They didn't understand,
Speaker:why are you showing us this?
Speaker:We've never done this
Speaker:before, this makes no sense.
Speaker:No, no, no, no, no.
Speaker:How can you assign, though you're giving
Speaker:too much power to the salespeople?
Speaker:It was like, okay, I am surprised,
Speaker:because to me, it was
Speaker:at least a talking point, at least a way
Speaker:of realizing that I may think this is
Speaker:gonna close as a
Speaker:salesperson, but how sure am I?
Speaker:But they were challenged, they
Speaker:had never heard of it before.
Speaker:That's just sad.
Speaker:So
Speaker:let's say
Speaker:a leader has created their process, and
Speaker:they've designed it, and they've found
Speaker:some holes and such.
Speaker:Once they start getting it in place, once
Speaker:they start actually communicating it, and
Speaker:let's say that they've already started
Speaker:the change management process, what
Speaker:changes inside the leader?
Speaker:Because we're not necessarily selling,
Speaker:right now we're not selling the results
Speaker:to our listeners, but
Speaker:we're selling groundedness.
Speaker:We're selling, okay, I'm now a leader of
Speaker:an organization or a sales manager of an
Speaker:organization that can
Speaker:function in a more manageable way.
Speaker:So what happens at that moment?
Speaker:When you are cooking something,
Speaker:and it turns out terribly,
Speaker:how do you know why
Speaker:it turned out terribly?
Speaker:You go back to the recipe, and you go,
Speaker:oh, I remember one of the first times,
Speaker:I'd probably been eight or nine, and I
Speaker:cooked a cake, and it's like, it wasn't
Speaker:working, it wasn't working.
Speaker:I forgot to put the flour in.
Speaker:That's the most basic of thing, but it
Speaker:was running, and it was like, what the
Speaker:heck, what did I do wrong?
Speaker:I forgot to put the flour
Speaker:in, how did I know that?
Speaker:Because there was this, and it wasn't a
Speaker:recipe that was like a scary looking
Speaker:recipe, it was pretty basic, you need
Speaker:this and this and this.
Speaker:Same thing with the sales process.
Speaker:The person now who has said, no, this,
Speaker:I'm owning this, they no
Speaker:longer need to be scared.
Speaker:They know if something's not
Speaker:working, what did we not do?
Speaker:What did we not do?
Speaker:What's missing?
Speaker:One of the first things that changes is
Speaker:how the leaders and
Speaker:coworkers listen to each other.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:And coaching becomes more specific
Speaker:instead of emotional, right?
Speaker:Because winning stops feeling like luck,
Speaker:and losing stops feeling like doom.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Well, again,
Speaker:it's the buy-in process.
Speaker:The only way I was ever able to install
Speaker:new sales processes
Speaker:was to get some buy-in.
Speaker:Why should I do this?
Speaker:I'm very comfortable,
Speaker:happy doing what I'm doing.
Speaker:Why should I bother?
Speaker:This requires me to get outside my
Speaker:comfort zone, right?
Speaker:So I think the manager has to become
Speaker:a master of influence, shall we say.
Speaker:Ooh, I like that.
Speaker:A master of influence.
Speaker:That's very good.
Speaker:You're talking about
Speaker:me having some words.
Speaker:Phrases come on right there.
Speaker:I get one for every 10 of yours.
Speaker:But anyway, this has
Speaker:been a great session, guys.
Speaker:We've covered a lot of ground here.
Speaker:I think it got down to me to the mindset.
Speaker:If you have a fixed mindset
Speaker:as opposed to a growth mindset,
Speaker:okay, you're in trouble because you're
Speaker:not going to accept change very readily.
Speaker:I like to hire people
Speaker:who have a growth mindset.
Speaker:Is there a way to find out
Speaker:if they have a growth mindset?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Their background, what they've done in
Speaker:the past, and the all-important
Speaker:face-to-face interview.
Speaker:We can find out who has a
Speaker:growth mindset or who doesn't.
Speaker:And again, that's another freebie.
Speaker:Someday we'll send you that one, where I
Speaker:had to learn that the hard way.
Speaker:So I've got scars.
Speaker:Also being able to explain the why.
Speaker:The why something is working, why someone
Speaker:is being successful.
Speaker:The purpose, yes.
Speaker:And the why not.
Speaker:Because often, especially people new to
Speaker:sales, I don't like cold calling, Dennis,
Speaker:I do not like getting people, I like when
Speaker:they call me, I don't like getting it.
Speaker:Am I going to be as a success?
Speaker:Can I be in sales?
Speaker:Depends on what industry you're in.
Speaker:A lot of industries, Leah, as you know,
Speaker:don't do cold calling at all anymore.
Speaker:So inside sales is different.
Speaker:But knowing that, knowing
Speaker:that, okay, you're not talking to enough
Speaker:people, then at least as the person
Speaker:mentoring, managing, owning the company,
Speaker:you can go, okay, Leah is not gonna do
Speaker:good at this because she just, she can't
Speaker:hack what needs to be done.
Speaker:And we know what needs to be done.
Speaker:And in future confessions, I
Speaker:can give you a little hint.
Speaker:We will be talking about
Speaker:that, the selection process.
Speaker:How do we know we're
Speaker:hiring the right people?
Speaker:We'll be talking about that because a lot
Speaker:of people have confessed to me, they have
Speaker:no clue how to hire people, okay?
Speaker:So stay tuned, tell us how to like and
Speaker:subscribe, Paul, all that technical
Speaker:stuff, I don't know how to do that.
Speaker:Well, it depends on
Speaker:where you're listening to us.
Speaker:I mean, you can listen to us on Apple, on
Speaker:Spotify, on Capitovate, you can watch us
Speaker:on YouTube, our pretty
Speaker:faces, especially Leah's, and
Speaker:hit like, subscribe.
Speaker:Really what we really
Speaker:want is for comments.
Speaker:Comments.
Speaker:Because comments allows us
Speaker:to really tailor this to you
Speaker:and allows us to answer the questions
Speaker:that are being asked.
Speaker:And all of these conversations that we
Speaker:have are based off of our knowledge and
Speaker:our conversations that we've had out of
Speaker:our, I'm sorry, more than a hundred years
Speaker:worth of knowledge and expertise.
Speaker:So, but hearing what's going on today
Speaker:really matters, especially with the
Speaker:additional AI and other
Speaker:areas that are part of this.
Speaker:So, today's confession shows up when a
Speaker:leader no longer trusts their own
Speaker:understanding of how
Speaker:the business really works.
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:Well, again, guys, all
Speaker:good things must end.
Speaker:We must end this version of this episode,
Speaker:I should say, of Connect and Convert.
Speaker:Remember this, this is where the
Speaker:conversations finally happen, okay?
Speaker:This is where they happen.
Speaker:Stay with us.
Speaker:Most founders don't need more advice.
Speaker:They just need a place for honesty.
Speaker:Connect and Convert will deliver.
Speaker:Stay tuned for the next episode of
Speaker:Connect and Convert for
Speaker:Dennis, Leah, and Paul.
Speaker:See you next time.
Speaker:(Upbeat Music)
