Episode 86

From Technician to Business Owner: What Drives Great Coaches - Part 3

In the final part of our three-part series, sales coaching legend Gordon Wilson gets personal about what truly motivates him as a coach and shares his unfiltered thoughts on managing younger generations. Discover his "elevator coaching" philosophy, why he prefers questions over statements, and his surprising regret about not starting his own consulting business earlier. This episode delivers raw wisdom from decades of transforming underperforming sales teams.

What You'll Learn:

  • Gordon's surprising source of motivation - why helping others succeed fills his cup
  • The "elevator coaching" method - meeting people where they are mentally and emotionally
  • His lightning-round preferences: mindset vs. product knowledge, framework vs. script, questions vs. statements
  • Why Gordon doesn't read sales books (and his reasoning makes perfect sense)
  • The infamous "19-year-old employee" story that shows generational workplace challenges
  • Gordon's approach to hiring: experienced vs. inexperienced salespeople
  • His philosophy on the influences that shape us (plus his addition to the traditional "books, music, people" formula)

Key Takeaways:

  • True coaching fulfillment comes from seeing others succeed, not personal achievement
  • "Elevator coaching" means adapting your communication to each person's level
  • Questions always beat statements in sales and coaching situations
  • Don't mess with what already works - protect your successful methods
  • Every business owner is ultimately a salesperson, whether they admit it or not
  • Authenticity wins over polished presentations every time

Lightning Round Results:

  • Mindset vs. Product Knowledge: Mindset wins - attitude and desire to learn beat technical expertise
  • Script vs. Framework: Framework - allows flexibility while maintaining structure
  • Questions vs. Statements: Questions - you can't help someone without knowing what they need
  • Cigars: It's a tie between Ashton VSG and Arturo Fuente Shark

The 19-Year-Old Story:

Gordon shares his most recent "crazy coaching experience" involving a defiant 19-year-old who went from being "offended" by accountability to achieving top performance - before ultimately falling back into old patterns.

Gordon's Biggest Regret:

If he could start over at 32, Gordon would have started his own consulting business helping companies perform better, recognizing that "you can't always help from the inside."

Personal Insights:

  • Gordon's unique take on work-life balance and cigar relaxation
  • His musical background and preference for smooth jazz
  • Why he avoids reading sales books to protect his proven methods
  • His addition to the "books, music, people" influence theory: the desire to change

Guest Bio:

Gordon Wilson is a veteran sales coach with over 30 years of experience across multiple industries. He has consistently achieved 100-200% over quota and currently serves as a coach of coaches, specializing in individual development approaches that address both professional and personal growth.

Series Recap:

  • Part 1: Why most small business owners struggle transitioning from technician to leader
  • Part 2: Managing high-performers and the personal side of professional development
  • Part 3: Personal philosophy, generational challenges, and authentic coaching methods

Sponsors:

This episode is brought to you by Wizard Academy (WizardAcademy.org), offering classes like Tower Talks where business leaders can share their expertise from the Wizard Tower's "plaid rug" area of authority.

Free Consultation Offer:

Dennis and Leah offer free 60-minute consultations for small business owners. Contact LeahBumphrey@WizardOfAds.com or DennisCollins@WizardOfAds.com.

#SalesCoaching #Leadership #GenerationalDifferences #BusinessPhilosophy #SmallBusiness #TeamManagement #SalesTraining #AuthenticLeadership #BusinessConsulting #ConnectAndConvert

Transcript
Paul Boomer:

Welcome back to the final installment of our three part series

Paul Boomer:

with Gordon Wilson on Connect & Convert.

Paul Boomer:

This is Producer Boomer.

Paul Boomer:

In part one, Gordon shared his philosophy on managing versus coaching.

Paul Boomer:

In part two, we explored his unique methodologies, his and his methods, and

Paul Boomer:

heard powerful transformation stories.

Paul Boomer:

Today we're getting more personal.

Paul Boomer:

You'll discover what truly motivates Gordon as a coach, his approach

Paul Boomer:

to hiring and his thoughts on managing younger generations.

Paul Boomer:

Gordon also shares his perspective on the influences that shape

Paul Boomer:

us and reveals what he'd do differently if he could start over.

Paul Boomer:

At the age of 32, this final episode is packed with wisdom from

Paul Boomer:

decades of real world experience.

Paul Boomer:

Let's dive right in into part three with Gordon Wilson

Paul Boomer:

. Leah Bumphrey: So now.

Paul Boomer:

I wanna go a little bit deeper, Gordon, because you're filling up a lot of

Paul Boomer:

people's cups with what you are doing.

Gordon Wilson:

Yes.

Leah Bumphrey:

Nothing, nothing fancy, but you're doing what you have promised

Leah Bumphrey:

and, and there's those results.

Leah Bumphrey:

And as you said, you've had references for years from these people.

Leah Bumphrey:

What do you do?

Leah Bumphrey:

What does Gordon do to fill up his cup?

Leah Bumphrey:

You can't keep doing that.

Leah Bumphrey:

Eventually the teapots empty.

Leah Bumphrey:

So what do you do to keep yourself in this mindset?

Leah Bumphrey:

And that's something Dennis and I talk all the time because even the best

Leah Bumphrey:

business owner, the best coach, the best manager has to have something within

Leah Bumphrey:

themselves 'cause it's not limitless.

Gordon Wilson:

I disagree with that.

Gordon Wilson:

Okay.

Gordon Wilson:

If you come at it from a standpoint that what fulfills me

Gordon Wilson:

is seeing those people do better.

Gordon Wilson:

Okay.

Gordon Wilson:

Uh, I had a kid call me, um, two weeks ago, brand new in the business.

Gordon Wilson:

This was down in another location.

Gordon Wilson:

He was at the bottom of the heap.

Gordon Wilson:

He was on the firing line, if you know what that means.

Gordon Wilson:

He, he had a lot of stadium lights on him.

Gordon Wilson:

Um, and, uh, in training that day, uh, I had come up with some ways to

Gordon Wilson:

present in our case, the options.

Gordon Wilson:

I really drilled in on it and he was really into listening.

Gordon Wilson:

My phone rang two hours later while I was sitting in one of my meetings with

Gordon Wilson:

my coaches, and, uh, he called me up and he says, Gordon, Gordon, it worked.

Gordon Wilson:

I did it exactly the way he said, you do it.

Gordon Wilson:

And I closed it in the platinum.

Gordon Wilson:

And, uh, he says, I, I never came out of the platinum option.

Gordon Wilson:

I just sat there and did exactly what you said to do.

Gordon Wilson:

Now, to me, that's my day.

Gordon Wilson:

Okay.

Gordon Wilson:

Look at anything that you do, including you guys, you know, if,

Gordon Wilson:

if you can help, whatever number.

Gordon Wilson:

Everybody has low numbers they put on there.

Gordon Wilson:

You know, if I can help one person, I've done my job.

Gordon Wilson:

Um, when, when you can see if, if, if, if I'm doing my thing

Gordon Wilson:

and the numbers are going up.

Gordon Wilson:

In what direction I like to see.

Gordon Wilson:

Then I'm doing something correctly and the team is responding to it.

Gordon Wilson:

You always have braggers and you always have laggers.

Gordon Wilson:

Okay?

Gordon Wilson:

Um, you have to work.

Gordon Wilson:

You have to work both in management.

Gordon Wilson:

It's like elevator coaching, whatever floor all five or six or 10 of your

Gordon Wilson:

people are, you have to get off on the same floor with that person to

Gordon Wilson:

be able to communicate with them.

Gordon Wilson:

Hmm.

Leah Bumphrey:

Well said.

Leah Bumphrey:

I, I like that.

Leah Bumphrey:

Elevated coaching.

Leah Bumphrey:

I don't think I've heard that term before.

Gordon Wilson:

I, that's, that's a G-ism

Dennis Collins:

that, yeah, he has, uh, Leah, you'll learn that Gordon

Dennis Collins:

has a lot of patented phrases.

Dennis Collins:

Trademark, you know, you can't use them.

Leah Bumphrey:

All for heaven's sake.

Gordon Wilson:

He own, he owns them.

Gordon Wilson:

Hey, I'm sorry.

Gordon Wilson:

I'll put a little asterisk by that.

Gordon Wilson:

Yeah.

Gordon Wilson:

Oh, hold on.

Gordon Wilson:

25 grand and I'll let you release that to you.

Dennis Collins:

Would that be 25 grand Canadian or U.S.?

Dennis Collins:

You know, it's a big

Gordon Wilson:

difference.

Gordon Wilson:

Oh, I

Leah Bumphrey:

get two.

Leah Bumphrey:

I get two if I'm paying US dollars.

Gordon Wilson:

Whatever works for you.

Gordon Wilson:

Leah, Canadian.

Gordon Wilson:

I took, I'm not a. I'm not a money, you know,

Leah Bumphrey:

you're not money motivated.

Leah Bumphrey:

It's, it's seeing the look in their eye and hearing what's going on.

Dennis Collins:

Okay.

Dennis Collins:

Let me do a quick lightning round with you, Gordon.

Dennis Collins:

Um, uh, product knowledge or mindset.

Gordon Wilson:

Mindset.

Dennis Collins:

Why

Gordon Wilson:

I.

Gordon Wilson:

I'd rather hire somebody that is driven with a kick butt attitude, a desire to

Gordon Wilson:

learn, and just wants to just be better in their life any day over someone that

Gordon Wilson:

can receive, recite the entire instruction manual for a piece of equipment.

Dennis Collins:

Okay.

Dennis Collins:

Script.

Dennis Collins:

Oh, I'm sorry.

Dennis Collins:

Uh, you're No, go ahead.

Dennis Collins:

Finished.

Dennis Collins:

No, go ahead.

Dennis Collins:

I want to hear what you say.

Gordon Wilson:

I don't remember now.

Gordon Wilson:

Okay.

Gordon Wilson:

It'll come back to you.

Gordon Wilson:

I'm, I'm gonna pull the, I'm gonna pull the old age card.

Gordon Wilson:

Okay.

Gordon Wilson:

So, all right.

Gordon Wilson:

Good.

Leah Bumphrey:

Ah,

Dennis Collins:

you're not allowed, you're not allowed to pull that card,

Dennis Collins:

but Nope, we don't, we don't have any talk like that on this podcast, do we?

Leah Bumphrey:

Thank you.

Dennis Collins:

Yes.

Dennis Collins:

She, she forbids it.

Dennis Collins:

Actually, I am the.

Dennis Collins:

So, okay.

Leah Bumphrey:

And again,

Dennis Collins:

I don't know about that.

Leah Bumphrey:

Strike two.

Leah Bumphrey:

Strike two.

Dennis Collins:

Okay, go ahead, Dennis.

Dennis Collins:

Go ahead.

Dennis Collins:

Uh, script or guide or framework.

Gordon Wilson:

Framework.

Dennis Collins:

Why?

Gordon Wilson:

Because if it's a good framework, you can fill in the pieces

Gordon Wilson:

yourself without it being scripty.

Gordon Wilson:

I mean, it, it, it's almost a, I I mean, I'll, I'll back up.

Gordon Wilson:

It's almost a tie because in a script there should be framework.

Gordon Wilson:

It should be okay because the framework is an outline.

Gordon Wilson:

The script is what's in between the A, B, C, and D, you know, of

Gordon Wilson:

the outlines or 1, 2, 3, and then A, B, C underneath one of those.

Gordon Wilson:

Um, the script is only important as learning, um, what the objection is and

Gordon Wilson:

what we're looking for people to do.

Gordon Wilson:

Um.

Gordon Wilson:

I don't know.

Gordon Wilson:

I mean, we have a framework here and, and to me, I, I look at it as an outline

Gordon Wilson:

and it, it's the framework of a house and it's up for us to fill the interior

Gordon Wilson:

and paint the home, uh, on the inside, uh, on how do you, how do you communicate

Gordon Wilson:

this from a consultative standpoint and not a scripty sales standpoint.

Gordon Wilson:

That's okay.

Gordon Wilson:

Answer.

Dennis Collins:

Uh, questions or statements?

Gordon Wilson:

Questions.

Dennis Collins:

Why?

Gordon Wilson:

Because if you don't know what the person is

Gordon Wilson:

looking for or wants, what give difference does your statement make?

Dennis Collins:

Why is it that so many people, even to this day still

Dennis Collins:

believe that the job they have, if they have some word like sales in

Dennis Collins:

their title, is to make statements?

Dennis Collins:

What is your theory about that?

Gordon Wilson:

Well, I used to teach a course on don't show up and throw up.

Gordon Wilson:

Um,

Dennis Collins:

don't show up and throw up

Gordon Wilson:

seriously, because some people have a tendency because they're,

Gordon Wilson:

once again, they're not confident in themselves and they're not confident

Gordon Wilson:

either technically or in the process, which can be three different things.

Gordon Wilson:

You got the process, you've got the technical questions,

Gordon Wilson:

and you've got themselves.

Gordon Wilson:

Those are three things that everybody's trying to manage at the same time.

Gordon Wilson:

So, uh, to, to me.

Gordon Wilson:

I'll let you ask it again.

Gordon Wilson:

Uh, I

Gordon Wilson:

questions or statements?

Gordon Wilson:

I, well, yeah.

Gordon Wilson:

Questions or statements because at, at the end of the day, we are there

Gordon Wilson:

depending on your business, but we're there to provide some form of service.

Gordon Wilson:

Okay.

Gordon Wilson:

And, uh, we talked a little about this this morning.

Gordon Wilson:

You know, if you serve someone correctly, then there is no sale involved, right?

Gordon Wilson:

And if you're serving, you're serving by asking what are, what's important

Gordon Wilson:

to the customer, what their needs are, where are they at in the process?

Gordon Wilson:

I'm just here to help you make an informed, intelligent decision.

Gordon Wilson:

Uh, how can I better help you?

Gordon Wilson:

I mean, all those kind of questions, um, lead yourself to

Gordon Wilson:

being more of a, I'm here to help.

Gordon Wilson:

Very few people will turn away.

Gordon Wilson:

Anybody that's here to help, and I used to start off with that in my presentations at

Gordon Wilson:

the end of the day, I'm just sure to help.

Dennis Collins:

Okay, this is a good one.

Dennis Collins:

Um, Arturo Fuente or Ashton.

Gordon Wilson:

Ooh, a a

Leah Bumphrey:

heck.

Leah Bumphrey:

Are you asking

Gordon Wilson:

it?

Gordon Wilson:

It's, it's, it's, it's a, it's a, it's a tie.

Gordon Wilson:

It's a tie, it's a tie between the Ashton VSG and, uh, and the shark's tooth.

Gordon Wilson:

Uh, fuentes, the

Dennis Collins:

shark, the, the, uh, tur fuentes shark as

Dennis Collins:

you're talking about, right?

Gordon Wilson:

Yep.

Gordon Wilson:

Yeah.

Dennis Collins:

The shark Now, uh, for our listeners and viewers, and for Leah

Leah Bumphrey:

and Leah and, and perhaps

Dennis Collins:

producer Paul, explain what that question is all about.

Gordon Wilson:

Well, you're asking me what it's all about.

Dennis Collins:

Yeah.

Dennis Collins:

I asked the question, but you explain it.

Gordon Wilson:

Oh, well.

Gordon Wilson:

Um, I, I never even SI never had a cigarette to my mouth.

Gordon Wilson:

I didn't start smoking until I was riding Harley's.

Gordon Wilson:

Uh, and, and, uh, it's the reason it just kind of Harley's, huh.

Gordon Wilson:

Fit together.

Gordon Wilson:

Um, and now as I've gotten into the later stages of life, yes, um, I,

Gordon Wilson:

uh, have found that I truly relaxed.

Gordon Wilson:

Because you have to sit for an hour to two hours, depending.

Gordon Wilson:

It helps me kind of just look at my days, my life or talk to my wife or whatever

Gordon Wilson:

it is, because you have to sit there for an hour with a really nice cigar and a

Gordon Wilson:

fine scotch, bourbon, rum or tequila.

Gordon Wilson:

I'm, oh my, I'm, I'm an equal.

Gordon Wilson:

I'm an equal opportunity.

Gordon Wilson:

Person, mix 'em all together.

Gordon Wilson:

Um, let's be clear, there are people who drink.

Gordon Wilson:

There are people who have a drink.

Gordon Wilson:

I have a drink.

Gordon Wilson:

I'm not You have a drink?

Gordon Wilson:

Yes.

Gordon Wilson:

Um, working in nightclubs and learn me what I didn't want to be.

Gordon Wilson:

So, um, wow.

Gordon Wilson:

There's another whole podcast there on Oh my.

Gordon Wilson:

How do you survive bouncing in nightclubs for eight years outta Chicago?

Gordon Wilson:

You outside of Chicago?

Dennis Collins:

Oh man.

Dennis Collins:

W that, we definitely gotta hear that story.

Dennis Collins:

Uh, we'll, we'll have you back for that one.

Dennis Collins:

So Leah, what, what we were referring to is Gordon and I

Dennis Collins:

share a love of fine cigars.

Leah Bumphrey:

Yes.

Leah Bumphrey:

I caught that.

Leah Bumphrey:

He, during his explanation, and I, he finelaw the reasons behind it because,

Dennis Collins:

and we have, uh, we have talked about.

Dennis Collins:

Several different types of cigars and I sent him a cigar that I

Dennis Collins:

like and I think he liked it.

Dennis Collins:

I hope he did.

Dennis Collins:

Um,

Gordon Wilson:

I sent you the picture up with the scotch here

Gordon Wilson:

in the cigar in my hand with

Dennis Collins:

a up.

Dennis Collins:

You did?

Dennis Collins:

I mean, yes.

Dennis Collins:

He, he appeared to like it.

Dennis Collins:

Yeah.

Dennis Collins:

So I, you know, maybe I'll send him some more.

Dennis Collins:

You know,

Leah Bumphrey:

I think Dennis is looking for a Google review.

Gordon Wilson:

Dennis, I, I wanna tell you, out all the cigars I smoked,

Gordon Wilson:

I've never had anybody send me one like you did, and I have changed.

Dennis Collins:

We've got that on tape.

Dennis Collins:

That's recorded.

Dennis Collins:

That's excellent.

Dennis Collins:

That is.

Dennis Collins:

Okay.

Dennis Collins:

Gordon, as we close, as we close out, I have, what was your craziest coaching

Dennis Collins:

experience of all, you have had hundreds of experiences, we could go on and on,

Dennis Collins:

but what was the craziest thing that ever happened to you as a sales coach?

Gordon Wilson:

Wow.

Gordon Wilson:

Yeah.

Gordon Wilson:

I have my secretary up here running around like crazy through the files.

Gordon Wilson:

'cause let's go back.

Gordon Wilson:

It kind of predates A.D.

Leah Bumphrey:

We're fine with the top 10.

Leah Bumphrey:

We're, we're fine with the top 10.

Leah Bumphrey:

Yeah.

Leah Bumphrey:

If you

Gordon Wilson:

can come, I'm gonna go with the most recent one, uh, three months ago.

Dennis Collins:

Go ahead.

Gordon Wilson:

Young new guy.

Gordon Wilson:

I, I'm training, uh, at our other location and I'm looking at, uh, we

Gordon Wilson:

have a, a thing called Data Cube, which.

Gordon Wilson:

List all the KPIs with the text, photos and where they're at,

Gordon Wilson:

closing percentage and numbers.

Gordon Wilson:

The whole, it is kind of an on the spot, immediately available information.

Gordon Wilson:

And so I'm saying, and I'm talking about how people are moving all over the

Gordon Wilson:

board and I go, how do we go from here?

Gordon Wilson:

Um, kind of in fifth place, out of 12 to 12th place, how does.

Gordon Wilson:

That how,

Dennis Collins:

tell me how that works.

Gordon Wilson:

And I looked at this young man, I said, so would you

Gordon Wilson:

like to tell me how that happened?

Gordon Wilson:

He goes, well, first of all, I have to tell you I'm offended.

Gordon Wilson:

Hmm.

Gordon Wilson:

I go, ex, first of all, I think everybody else in the room realizes that probably

Gordon Wilson:

isn't the right thing to say to me.

Gordon Wilson:

But um, he didn't.

Gordon Wilson:

And I said, so you're offended?

Gordon Wilson:

He goes, yes.

Gordon Wilson:

I go, well, how's that working for you?

Gordon Wilson:

And, uh, he says, well, no, I don't think that was the right question.

Gordon Wilson:

I said, oh, well, as a 19-year-old, fresh out of the house, you'll

Gordon Wilson:

have to realize there's a certain thing called accountability.

Gordon Wilson:

And let me throw in a tad bit of respect.

Gordon Wilson:

Now you, okay?

Gordon Wilson:

The respect comes from the standpoint that, one, I have the right, the

Gordon Wilson:

ability, the know how, and any way I do it, um, to ask you that

Gordon Wilson:

question because I wanna know why.

Gordon Wilson:

And if you don't, are concerned to know why, then you're in the wrong business.

Gordon Wilson:

Because you'll never move out of 12 if you don't figure out how you got there.

Gordon Wilson:

I said so I'm sorry if you felt offended.

Gordon Wilson:

Uh, we,

Leah Bumphrey:

you triggered him.

Leah Bumphrey:

You triggered a 19-year-old?

Gordon Wilson:

Wow.

Gordon Wilson:

And, and I, and I said, we don't have a safe room built here yet in the

Gordon Wilson:

building, but if you like, you need to go visit it later, um, you go right ahead.

Gordon Wilson:

Well, because, you know, he needed, he was cocky, he was young.

Gordon Wilson:

He thought he knew it all, uh, and he needed to have a little bit of

Gordon Wilson:

attitude adjustment by the way.

Gordon Wilson:

That young man, uh, is struggling again now because I'm only down

Gordon Wilson:

there occasionally, but he did go all the way up into the third and

Gordon Wilson:

fourth position, uh, in the numbers.

Gordon Wilson:

Um, but, uh, as the 19-year-old that I had to let go yesterday for

Gordon Wilson:

similar teenage retribution, um,

Dennis Collins:

retribution.

Dennis Collins:

Wow.

Gordon Wilson:

Yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's fascinating the young people today

Gordon Wilson:

when, when I was young, 19, I was hungry.

Gordon Wilson:

I mean, I still didn't give a crap about anything.

Gordon Wilson:

But those were different days.

Gordon Wilson:

You know, those were, you know, well first of all, you were never

Gordon Wilson:

disrespectful to anybody that was older.

Gordon Wilson:

Never.

Gordon Wilson:

I would never, everybody was.

Gordon Wilson:

Yes ma'am.

Gordon Wilson:

No ma'am.

Gordon Wilson:

Yes sir. No sir. Uh, everybody that my dad worked for was an uncle.

Gordon Wilson:

Um, yeah.

Gordon Wilson:

So it was a different time.

Gordon Wilson:

I, I wish a lot of our younger people today could go back in that

Gordon Wilson:

time because there was a thing called respect that was taught.

Gordon Wilson:

Okay.

Gordon Wilson:

Uh, and no matter what,

Dennis Collins:

well, it was, it was also, it was modeled, you know,

Dennis Collins:

I mean, I think it was modeled by society, by parents, by teachers.

Dennis Collins:

I mean, I, you know, that's a whole nother topic for another podcast too.

Gordon Wilson:

Yes, hiring, uh, hiring.

Gordon Wilson:

What, what are the new teenagers now?

Gordon Wilson:

'cause we, we barely survived the videos.

Dennis Collins:

Are they, what is their name?

Dennis Collins:

Gen Z.

Leah Bumphrey:

It's Generation Z.

Dennis Collins:

Is it ZZ?

Gordon Wilson:

Wasn't there a movie Z thing about the apocalypse or something?

Leah Bumphrey:

Oh yeah, it was a good one too.

Leah Bumphrey:

I love my sci-fi and yeah, they got what was coming to them.

Leah Bumphrey:

I, trust me.

Gordon Wilson:

Well, some of these young kids are apocalyptic.

Gordon Wilson:

I'll tell you.

Gordon Wilson:

It's pretty fascinating where their mind is.

Gordon Wilson:

Um,

Dennis Collins:

you know, we got another podcast here in this.

Dennis Collins:

We should do a podcast on Connect & Convert about how to manage the

Dennis Collins:

younger workforce, you know, especially if you're older like Gordon.

Paul Boomer:

Actually, Dennis, we, we've already done that once, but,

Paul Boomer:

uh, it's been a long time ago.

Paul Boomer:

We'll have to go back and, uh, listen to it.

Dennis Collins:

Well, we did do that one.

Paul Boomer:

Yes.

Dennis Collins:

God, it's been so long.

Dennis Collins:

I forgot Paul.

Dennis Collins:

Thank you.

Leah Bumphrey:

Now, Dennis, you're talking about drawing to a close, but

Leah Bumphrey:

I have a couple of questions yet that I

Dennis Collins:

Well, all right.

Dennis Collins:

I mean if, yeah.

Dennis Collins:

Well, I mean, go, go.

Dennis Collins:

I'd like to get Gordon away.

Dennis Collins:

I could go on for hours.

Dennis Collins:

You don't have to encourage.

Dennis Collins:

I was just trying, I was trying to be respectful of the time of our audience.

Gordon Wilson:

I, I would never go on for hours, so, but if you

Gordon Wilson:

guys want me to, I'm looking.

Gordon Wilson:

Okay.

Dennis Collins:

You, you, I know that you would with a good

Dennis Collins:

cigar and a glass of whiskey.

Dennis Collins:

I should light one up now and has to that, you know.

Leah Bumphrey:

That'd, that, that'd be the way to do it.

Leah Bumphrey:

The net, the, uh, your answers could be ours, but you could

Leah Bumphrey:

do a quick one on these too.

Leah Bumphrey:

One comes to mind because it, uh, I'd written it down earlier, but

Leah Bumphrey:

we've kind of alluded to this.

Leah Bumphrey:

If you are in a position where you're hiring for position

Leah Bumphrey:

someone with sales experience, someone with not a lick, a sales experience?

Gordon Wilson:

I'd rather take the, with a sales experience first blush.

Gordon Wilson:

Okay.

Gordon Wilson:

Um, here's what you have to look at.

Gordon Wilson:

'cause I see a lot of companies do this, including in management,

Gordon Wilson:

where they wanna hire somebody green and teach 'em their way.

Gordon Wilson:

Well, right.

Gordon Wilson:

Maybe you need to take a look at what your way is before you ask for that.

Gordon Wilson:

Okay.

Gordon Wilson:

Well said.

Gordon Wilson:

That's one thing.

Gordon Wilson:

Two is I'd rather see if I can correct a few old habits with someone at least

Gordon Wilson:

has one prong of the three legged stool.

Gordon Wilson:

Okay.

Gordon Wilson:

Is that three-legged stool when I'm hiring is, do they have any experience in my

Gordon Wilson:

industry or are we gonna have to teach it?

Gordon Wilson:

Okay.

Gordon Wilson:

Do they have any sales experience?

Gordon Wilson:

Am I gonna have to teach it?

Gordon Wilson:

Because along with that, they're also gonna have to learn the process.

Gordon Wilson:

That's three things we're gonna have to teach.

Gordon Wilson:

How much time do you have to, to put into that person, and are they even

Gordon Wilson:

in a place to be able to do that?

Gordon Wilson:

I mean, that's a whole nother, including in managers.

Gordon Wilson:

Okay.

Gordon Wilson:

Um, there are rare birds out there that can sell, manage, and coach.

Gordon Wilson:

Um,

Dennis Collins:

turn the Boomer, turn the spotlight on.

Dennis Collins:

We, we found the guy, we finally found the, yeah, there he is.

Gordon Wilson:

Um, no, I, I, I'm serious about that because we.

Gordon Wilson:

We, we talk about the investment that new people cost.

Gordon Wilson:

I mean, we'll take seven, eight months to decide whether we

Gordon Wilson:

wanna keep somebody or not.

Gordon Wilson:

That's a lot of money.

Gordon Wilson:

'cause most of 'em on hourly.

Dennis Collins:

Mm-hmm.

Gordon Wilson:

Plus we're paying them a percentage or a

Gordon Wilson:

commission or something like that.

Gordon Wilson:

Just the management time and training time invested in those people.

Gordon Wilson:

Plus if they're in a vehicle already, okay, then there's that expense.

Gordon Wilson:

You know, the cost of five to $600.

Gordon Wilson:

You even send 'em on a call, right.

Gordon Wilson:

You take somebody really green and brand new, that can be a lengthy

Gordon Wilson:

process, not knowing what you're gonna end up with at the end.

Gordon Wilson:

Not that you ever do.

Gordon Wilson:

You can hire the greatest person on sliced bread.

Gordon Wilson:

That successful whole life, that just turns into a big bag

Gordon Wilson:

of crap at the end of the day.

Gordon Wilson:

But that's gonna be a personal thing.

Dennis Collins:

Yeah.

Dennis Collins:

Yeah, that's true.

Dennis Collins:

That's when that personal side comes in.

Dennis Collins:

Yeah.

Dennis Collins:

Yep.

Leah Bumphrey:

Uh, one thing I always tell my clients is it's

Leah Bumphrey:

actually a three pronged point, but I believe it very strongly.

Leah Bumphrey:

The only thing that changes us are the books we read, the music we listen

Leah Bumphrey:

to, and the people that we meet.

Dennis Collins:

Hmm.

Leah Bumphrey:

Books, music, people.

Leah Bumphrey:

What are those influences in your life, Gordon?

Gordon Wilson:

Well, I'll say, I'm gonna add one to that.

Gordon Wilson:

The desire to change.

Gordon Wilson:

Nobody changes until they have to.

Gordon Wilson:

That's right.

Gordon Wilson:

If you look through history, even populations don't

Gordon Wilson:

change until they have to.

Gordon Wilson:

Okay.

Gordon Wilson:

And so to me, something triggers somebody to say, Hey, I have

Gordon Wilson:

to make an internal change.

Gordon Wilson:

I'm losing my wife, or I've lost too many jobs, or whatever it is,

Gordon Wilson:

and all of a sudden you get slapped upside of the head and say, if I don't

Gordon Wilson:

change, I'm going down the tubes.

Gordon Wilson:

And, and that's, that's what I call a personal come to Jesus

Gordon Wilson:

meeting with yourself somewhere.

Gordon Wilson:

Yep.

Gordon Wilson:

And find out what's going on.

Gordon Wilson:

But, uh, music is an influence.

Gordon Wilson:

I, I'm huge and always have been into music, uh, music and I hate to bring

Gordon Wilson:

up another career, but I have been a musician in the past, of course.

Gordon Wilson:

So, uh,

Gordon Wilson:

I'm sorry I lived too long.

Gordon Wilson:

Okay.

Dennis Collins:

Wow, man.

Leah Bumphrey:

Don't apologize.

Leah Bumphrey:

Don't apologize.

Gordon Wilson:

Um, so music's important to me.

Gordon Wilson:

My music tastes are all over the place, but have kind of just gone

Gordon Wilson:

into the smooth jazz because I like the relaxing side of that.

Dennis Collins:

Mm-hmm.

Gordon Wilson:

Plus it goes well in an old piano bar, jazz with a cigar and scotch.

Gordon Wilson:

I don't, boy, you know

Leah Bumphrey:

that right.

Leah Bumphrey:

Dennis

Dennis Collins:

scene you just said.

Dennis Collins:

It's a magic moment.

Dennis Collins:

Wanna see?

Gordon Wilson:

Okay.

Gordon Wilson:

It's a magic moment.

Gordon Wilson:

Yes.

Gordon Wilson:

It's books.

Gordon Wilson:

I've never been a big reader other than history.

Gordon Wilson:

I got really into, um, pre, uh, kind of, uh, pre-Jesus, uh, you know, bc uh, stuff.

Gordon Wilson:

Um, I have an antique uh, uh, Masonic library at home.

Gordon Wilson:

Um, wow.

Gordon Wilson:

Wow.

Gordon Wilson:

That really digs into some pretty, you know, that's the kind of

Gordon Wilson:

stuff I, I'm not a huge reader.

Gordon Wilson:

No.

Gordon Wilson:

I also don't read sales books.

Gordon Wilson:

I don't read, uh, a lot of other guidance books because this may sound weird.

Gordon Wilson:

I don't want anything to influence what works already for me.

Leah Bumphrey:

No, no, that, that doesn't sound weird.

Leah Bumphrey:

I like that.

Dennis Collins:

Don't mess up your mind.

Dennis Collins:

Right?

Gordon Wilson:

Well, I've had people try to change what I do and I go, I, I. No.

Gordon Wilson:

No, I'm not.

Gordon Wilson:

Why would I change what has worked successfully in the previous

Gordon Wilson:

three places that I've been?

Gordon Wilson:

Why would I change that?

Gordon Wilson:

Yeah, E, even in the position I'm in now, I had to learn quasi something new,

Gordon Wilson:

although a lot of it touched on what I did anyway, so I've had to adapt and still

Gordon Wilson:

do my process while using someone else's.

Leah Bumphrey:

Yep.

Leah Bumphrey:

Because you know what works and you're confident and you bring that to the table.

Leah Bumphrey:

That's what you're hired based on the track record that you've established.

Gordon Wilson:

If you can keep, if you can keep winning and adapting to what it takes

Gordon Wilson:

to win, which is any good salesperson, and let me tell you, managers and owners.

Gordon Wilson:

At heart, believe it or not, you are a salesperson and you better

Gordon Wilson:

come to realization with that because as you're hiring, you're

Gordon Wilson:

selling your company and yourself.

Gordon Wilson:

Okay?

Gordon Wilson:

And when you're at your customer's house, no matter what

Gordon Wilson:

you're doing, you're selling.

Gordon Wilson:

And uh, so I know that selling term we talked about today is kind of a,

Dennis Collins:

yeah, it, it's

Gordon Wilson:

negative word.

Dennis Collins:

Um, but it, it can be, but uh, you know, again, it's the word that

Dennis Collins:

this culture, this society uses for it.

Dennis Collins:

I think the meaning that you derive from that is really what's important.

Dennis Collins:

What do you infer from that?

Dennis Collins:

You know?

Gordon Wilson:

I think if you walk to the front door and you go, Hey, I

Gordon Wilson:

know at the end of the day you think I'm here to sell you something, so

Gordon Wilson:

let's just get that off the table.

Gordon Wilson:

Okay.

Gordon Wilson:

Okay.

Gordon Wilson:

At the end, end of the day, I really take more of a consultative approach.

Gordon Wilson:

And you'll see that by the end of the time that I leave here, that

Gordon Wilson:

I am here to help you make an informed, intelligent decision.

Gordon Wilson:

There are a lot of questions that I'm gonna ask.

Gordon Wilson:

I hope that's okay with you.

Gordon Wilson:

Is that okay?

Gordon Wilson:

And, and, and I just, I I take it from there.

Gordon Wilson:

I take the sales thing off the table.

Gordon Wilson:

I don't sell anything that doesn't break off the table.

Gordon Wilson:

Yes, it's,

Dennis Collins:

huh?

Dennis Collins:

Do you coach that?

Dennis Collins:

Yes, what you just said.

Dennis Collins:

Yes.

Dennis Collins:

How, how should I say this?

Dennis Collins:

How easy or how difficult is it for people who are not used to that?

Dennis Collins:

'cause that is quite, uh, innovative.

Dennis Collins:

Very few people do that.

Dennis Collins:

How easy is it for them to adopt that?

Gordon Wilson:

I don't know.

Gordon Wilson:

Maybe that's why I've been a hundred to 200% over quota in

Gordon Wilson:

every job that I've been at.

Gordon Wilson:

Wow.

Gordon Wilson:

And I don't, but I don't mean that as a smart ass comment.

Gordon Wilson:

I mean, the thing is, is that.

Gordon Wilson:

If you're, I've had to adapt my whole life.

Gordon Wilson:

This just shouldn't happen overnight.

Gordon Wilson:

This has all evolved, of course, of course, throughout the centuries of, of,

Gordon Wilson:

but listening to other people do something that, that was like, Ooh, I like that.

Gordon Wilson:

And then adapting it myself.

Gordon Wilson:

And that is all accumulated in to what it is, to what it is now.

Gordon Wilson:

But there is pushback because some people, um.

Gordon Wilson:

I'm gonna be politically uncorrect here for a moment in HR Unsensitive, but

Gordon Wilson:

some people have to grow a pair, okay?

Gordon Wilson:

In front of a customer and stand up for yourself and your company

Gordon Wilson:

and be blunt for honest, okay?

Gordon Wilson:

Yes, my stuff's expensive.

Gordon Wilson:

I'm not the cheapest guy on the planet.

Gordon Wilson:

Yes, you called me out here.

Gordon Wilson:

Yes, I'm the salesperson.

Gordon Wilson:

No, I'm not gonna beat on you.

Gordon Wilson:

No, I'm not gonna use all this tricky stuff.

Gordon Wilson:

Now at the end of the day, what's really good, if you're really good at

Gordon Wilson:

this, you can sell the crap of 'em.

Gordon Wilson:

They don't even know that they were sold.

Gordon Wilson:

I like getting to the door, and here's what I always wanted to hear.

Gordon Wilson:

Wow, you're good.

Gordon Wilson:

And I go, what do you mean?

Gordon Wilson:

I, I don't feel like you were pushing me, but I just signed the paperwork.

Gordon Wilson:

It just seemed like the right thing to do.

Gordon Wilson:

Then I sitting here at the door looking at you going, holy cow.

Gordon Wilson:

What just happened?

Gordon Wilson:

You're good.

Gordon Wilson:

That tells me I wasn't pushy, I wasn't sales, and they

Gordon Wilson:

appreciated what I did for,

Leah Bumphrey:

I like that,

Gordon Wilson:

even though it cost 'em a lot.

Dennis Collins:

Well, and they see you as a problem solver.

Dennis Collins:

You solve their problem.

Gordon Wilson:

I, I put on my last business card before this when I was

Gordon Wilson:

still selling however many years ago that I was a solution consultant.

Gordon Wilson:

Yep.

Gordon Wilson:

That was it.

Gordon Wilson:

And that's the way I approached my sales.

Leah Bumphrey:

So if we were able to wave the magic wand and take you on

Leah Bumphrey:

Dennis and Leah's excellent adventure.

Leah Bumphrey:

You are going back in time.

Leah Bumphrey:

You are 32.

Leah Bumphrey:

You have all the supports and your personal life in place.

Leah Bumphrey:

You get to pick any industry you want, where are you setting your sights?

Gordon Wilson:

I wish I'd set my sights on setting up my own consulting business

Gordon Wilson:

on helping companies perform better.

Gordon Wilson:

That's what I wish I had.

Dennis Collins:

Interesting.

Leah Bumphrey:

Beautiful.

Dennis Collins:

Interesting, interesting.

Dennis Collins:

Yeah, it's not, what do you mean?

Gordon Wilson:

Because you can't always help from the inside.

Dennis Collins:

That often you can't.

Dennis Collins:

That's true.

Dennis Collins:

Uh, the, the, the, um, mysterious person from afar has the better answers than

Dennis Collins:

the inside people sometimes, right?

Gordon Wilson:

Yeah.

Gordon Wilson:

Isn't it amazing you hire someone with those decades and decades of experience,

Gordon Wilson:

but then you listen to somebody that walks in the door you don't know anything about

Gordon Wilson:

that comes up and says something, you know, it's, uh, kind of a fascinating.

Gordon Wilson:

Situation, but.

Dennis Collins:

Human nature.

Leah Bumphrey:

Profit in his own, uh, in his own town is not worth much.

Dennis Collins:

Not worth much.

Gordon Wilson:

Yeah.

Gordon Wilson:

So, uh, you know, as always, I, I appreciate, uh, the questions.

Gordon Wilson:

I, I love being fired at questions.

Gordon Wilson:

That's how, that's quite honestly, that's another thing about coaching guys.

Gordon Wilson:

Uh, if you wanna hire a coach, I stand up in front of my

Gordon Wilson:

people and just say, fire away.

Gordon Wilson:

You know, what did you run into this week?

Gordon Wilson:

What's what?

Gordon Wilson:

Why did you close something?

Gordon Wilson:

What are you hearing?

Gordon Wilson:

What's not working?

Gordon Wilson:

Fire away.

Gordon Wilson:

Bring it at me.

Gordon Wilson:

Let's just go at it.

Gordon Wilson:

Um, I, I don't even, I don't even set up any training thing

Gordon Wilson:

anymore on my weekly trainings.

Gordon Wilson:

I, I just don't even set anything up anymore.

Gordon Wilson:

I'd rather just do it off the cuff and have it be natural and

Gordon Wilson:

real and on the spot at the time, even if I falter or stutter.

Gordon Wilson:

It's real.

Dennis Collins:

Authentic wins the day.

Dennis Collins:

Always, always.

Leah Bumphrey:

Dennis, you know how we love that WizardAcademy.org sponsors

Leah Bumphrey:

us, and of course, the, the classes that are offered are second to none.

Leah Bumphrey:

Gordon, you've heard us talk about it before.

Leah Bumphrey:

There's a relatively new class that they're doing and it is Tower talks.

Leah Bumphrey:

It gives you an opportunity to be in the Wizard Tower and speak from,

Leah Bumphrey:

uh, what's known as the plaid rug, which is the area of authority.

Leah Bumphrey:

Um, it's a hard.

Leah Bumphrey:

18 minute opportunity to talk to people with Q, Q and A afterwards.

Leah Bumphrey:

And Gordon, one day when you are going, man, I need a new adventure.

Leah Bumphrey:

I recommend that class for you.

Leah Bumphrey:

Yeah.

Leah Bumphrey:

Would set him up for the tower.

Leah Bumphrey:

Love it.

Leah Bumphrey:

You would love it.

Dennis Collins:

Didn't your son do that?

Leah Bumphrey:

Yep.

Leah Bumphrey:

Fletcher did that.

Dennis Collins:

You sent me, you sent me a video.

Leah Bumphrey:

Yeah.

Gordon Wilson:

Well, you know, Gandolf does begin with a g.

Gordon Wilson:

I don't wanna say any person.

Leah Bumphrey:

Enough said.

Dennis Collins:

What a pleasure, gordon.

Dennis Collins:

Gordon Wilson is our guest.

Dennis Collins:

Second time guest.

Dennis Collins:

He didn't disappoint, did he?

Dennis Collins:

Leah?

Dennis Collins:

He came through.

Dennis Collins:

No, not at all.

Dennis Collins:

With, with, uh, stories, philosophy, success, tips for

Dennis Collins:

our small business owners.

Dennis Collins:

Listen to Gordon.

Dennis Collins:

Folks.

Dennis Collins:

This guy is the real deal.

Dennis Collins:

He has made it happen.

Dennis Collins:

Okay?

Dennis Collins:

He is making it happen as we speak.

Dennis Collins:

And we are seeing that 'cause we're close, uh, to him and this client.

Dennis Collins:

So all I can say is, number one, congratulations on an outstanding career.

Dennis Collins:

You're still doing it.

Dennis Collins:

There's still time.

Dennis Collins:

Don't ever say there isn't.

Dennis Collins:

There is.

Dennis Collins:

Thank you for being our guest.

Dennis Collins:

And we appreciate you.

Dennis Collins:

We have 10 more topics here.

Dennis Collins:

I guess we'll have to do this again sometime, but.

Gordon Wilson:

Ooh, a triple.

Dennis Collins:

Ooh, yeah, that, that, that could be interesting.

Dennis Collins:

So let's put a cap on this one.

Dennis Collins:

Leah Bumphrey, it's Dennis Collins and Leah, along with our guest,

Dennis Collins:

Gordon Wilson, we're saying so long this time for Connect & Convert.

Dennis Collins:

We'll see you next time.

Gordon Wilson:

Thank you everybody.

Gordon Wilson:

Appreciate your time.

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Connect & Convert: The Sales Accelerator Podcast
Insider Strategies for Small Business Sales Success

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