Episode 8

People Buy People... Or Do They?

In this podcast episode, hosts Dave Salter and Dennis Collins engage in a dynamic discussion centered around the concept of "strategy rapport." Drawing from Dennis's extensive sales experience, they explore how establishing strategy rapport can be a game-changer in sales interactions. They delve into the idea of connecting with customers' purchase strategies, highlighting the importance of understanding needs and offering value. Throughout the conversation, they underscore the role of likability while showcasing how strategy rapport can elevate the sales process. Join them for an insightful conversation on leveraging strategy rapport for successful sales outcomes.

Transcript
Dave Salter:

Hey everybody.

Dave Salter:

This is Dave Salter and you have landed on Connect & Convert the

Dave Salter:

podcast where we share insider secrets for small business sales success.

Dave Salter:

I'm joined today, as always by Dennis Collins, our resident

Dave Salter:

sales training expert.

Dave Salter:

And Dennis has been a rockstar in this field for nearly four decades.

Dave Salter:

Dennis, how you doing today?

Dennis Collins:

I'm feeling those four decades today.

Dennis Collins:

Yeah.

Dennis Collins:

Doing good though.

Dennis Collins:

Doing good.

Dennis Collins:

How about you?

Dennis Collins:

Everything good?

Dave Salter:

Everything's great.

Dave Salter:

And before we get into today's topic, people by people or do they,

Dave Salter:

which I have a feeling you and I are gonna disagree on a little bit.

Dave Salter:

It's possible at least at the outset.

Dave Salter:

It's possible.

Dave Salter:

I, I.

Dave Salter:

I, I think it's remarkable and, 'cause we never talk about this a whole lot.

Dave Salter:

But you were the chief training officer for your radio group, and you did, you

Dave Salter:

conducted B two B sales training at least once a week for 20 sales people.

Dave Salter:

You did about 1500 sessions.

Dave Salter:

Yeah.

Dave Salter:

And in addition, you did value added sales training for your V I P clients.

Dave Salter:

You grew your business from about 3 million annual gross

Dave Salter:

revenue to over 35 million annual gross revenue when you left.

Dave Salter:

We did total gross revenue over that time was $300 million.

Dave Salter:

You guys were the top revenue producers annually in, what I would

Dave Salter:

consider one of the most competitive markets in the country, Miami.

Dave Salter:

So kudos to you.

Dave Salter:

Love bragging on you.

Dave Salter:

But people thank you.

Dennis Collins:

That's very nice of you.

Dave Salter:

People need to know how I mean that when I say you're a

Dave Salter:

rockstar, I'm not just blowing smoke.

Dave Salter:

You're the real, you're the real deal.

Dave Salter:

However...

Dennis Collins:

...you had a great team.

Dennis Collins:

We had a great team there, so we were very successful.

Dave Salter:

People buy people or do they?

Dave Salter:

I think yes, they do.

Dave Salter:

And I know you're gonna argue both sides of the story, but I.

Dave Salter:

I I honestly cannot recall a time where I bought something from a jackass.

Dennis Collins:

Wow.

Dennis Collins:

That's a pretty strong statement.

Dave Salter:

I, I said I didn't say I didn't, I said I can't recall.

Dennis Collins:

Can't recall...

Dennis Collins:

but it's possible that you may have, right?

Dave Salter:

It's possible.

Dennis Collins:

Have well, So let me ask you this, point blank.

Dennis Collins:

You already answered it.

Dennis Collins:

Have you ever bought something just because of the salesperson?

Dennis Collins:

Had that salesperson not been your salesperson?

Dennis Collins:

There's a strong chance you might not have bought it.

Dave Salter:

So this is probably slightly jaded because it was on a recommendation.

Dave Salter:

But needed tires.

Dave Salter:

Just got, had been living in this town for maybe a year.

Dave Salter:

Made a couple of friends, needed new tires on the car.

Dave Salter:

So one of our friends says, Call Nlo Tires.

Dave Salter:

I've known Frank forever.

Dave Salter:

Good guy.

Dave Salter:

They'll, they'll do right by you.

Dave Salter:

So I call Frank and Frank's the lead salesperson.

Dave Salter:

He is probably, one of the principles in the business and we strike up a telephone

Dave Salter:

conversation and so I felt really good about the guy took the car in and I think.

Dave Salter:

It took a little while for the sale to take place, but that was because we, we

Dave Salter:

had a little bit of conversation and I just felt he genuinely wanted to help me.

Dave Salter:

And making the sale was secondary to him.

Dave Salter:

And he's been my car, entire guy for 18 years now.

Dave Salter:

And when I call and that, and my, my oldest daughter lives

Dave Salter:

on the other side of town.

Dave Salter:

But for example, when I'll call Frank and say, Hey, I need an

Dave Salter:

oil change and a tire rotation.

Dave Salter:

He'll, and he'll say, yep he'll schedule me.

Dave Salter:

And then he'll say, Hey, by the way, Katie, that's my oldest daughter.

Dave Salter:

He'd be like, Katie was in the other day for an oil change too.

Dave Salter:

Her car's in really good shape and that, she made a good purchase.

Dave Salter:

What a, blah, blah, blah.

Dave Salter:

So he let me know that, he saw my daughter the other day

Dave Salter:

and took care of her as well.

Dennis Collins:

Okay.

Dennis Collins:

Anyway you, well, obviously whatever he did on that first encounter has stuck.

Dave Salter:

Yeah.

Dennis Collins:

Because you, he's your go-to guy and Yes, it was a

Dennis Collins:

referral, but he had to sell himself.

Dennis Collins:

I've gotten a lot of referrals in my life that I just pour it up and threw it away.

Dennis Collins:

'cause we didn't click, but we did.

Dennis Collins:

Yeah.

Dennis Collins:

Yeah.

Dennis Collins:

You already answered the other question you've never knowingly that you can

Dennis Collins:

think of, bought something from a jerk.

Dave Salter:

Right, right.

Dave Salter:

Knowingly is the key word there.

Dennis Collins:

Would you ever, is there any situation that you could

Dennis Collins:

imagine that you would buy something from somebody you did not like?

Dave Salter:

I think at this stage of my life, the only scenario I could see

Dave Salter:

that happening is if it was an emergency.

Dennis Collins:

Yeah.

Dave Salter:

And I needed a thing or a repair or it's July and it's

Dave Salter:

98 and my eight, my H-V-A-C just crapped out and it's not repairable.

Dave Salter:

So I've gotta, I've got four women in the house plus a dog,

Dave Salter:

and we've gotta get the air going.

Dave Salter:

I don't have time to.

Dave Salter:

I go to the journal.

Dave Salter:

Yeah.

Dave Salter:

Yep.

Dennis Collins:

Okay.

Dennis Collins:

I have studied this, researched this both personally and through other sources

Dennis Collins:

because it's what they always say.

Dennis Collins:

I.

Dennis Collins:

It's people first in sales, you gotta make that connection.

Dennis Collins:

You gotta make that relationship, or there's no sale.

Dennis Collins:

So I wanted to test that and say, is that long held concept, is that really true?

Dennis Collins:

So I've done some homework on it.

Dennis Collins:

So is it value and product first or is it people first?

Dennis Collins:

That's where the research led me.

Dennis Collins:

In your case,

Dave Salter:

I would agree with you.

Dave Salter:

I would agree with you though, on the value proposition.

Dave Salter:

Absolutely.

Dave Salter:

I think if a person tries to establish a relationship, and you and I are both at

Dave Salter:

our stage of life where we can tell is it, can this person do what we need 'em to do

Dave Salter:

or provide what we need them to provide?

Dave Salter:

They and I think I've had encounters where I've said, you know what,

Dave Salter:

you're a really nice guy or gal, but I think I gotta look elsewhere.

Dennis Collins:

Yeah.

Dennis Collins:

That's the way I wanna talk about people.

Dennis Collins:

Buy people.

Dennis Collins:

That's a common phrase.

Dennis Collins:

We've all heard it.

Dennis Collins:

We tend to believe it.

Dennis Collins:

It refers to the idea that customers are more likely to buy

Dennis Collins:

from people they like and trust.

Dennis Collins:

That happens to be scientifically true.

Dennis Collins:

Okay.

Dennis Collins:

But in other words, building a strong relationship with a customer

Dennis Collins:

can be just as important as the product or service being sold.

Dennis Collins:

That's the view of many practitioners in sales.

Dennis Collins:

Customers prioritize the value and product they receive over

Dennis Collins:

the person or brand selling it.

Dennis Collins:

That's the opposite.

Dennis Collins:

Which is it?

Dennis Collins:

Is it the people first or is it the brand and product person?

Dennis Collins:

So while personal connections clearly have enhanced, will enhance

Dennis Collins:

the overall sales experience.

Dennis Collins:

There are those who say it's not the primary factor that everyone thinks it is.

Dennis Collins:

People buy value, not just people.

Dennis Collins:

While it's important to establish trust, yeah.

Dennis Collins:

There's gotta be trust in a rapport, but ultimately their buying decision

Dennis Collins:

is a, based on the pro, the value of the product or service that

Dennis Collins:

meets their needs and actually provides that special value to them.

Dennis Collins:

Does that Yeah.

Dennis Collins:

Make any sense?

Dave Salter:

It does make sense.

Dave Salter:

'cause I, because as you were talking I thought of a, for instance,

Dave Salter:

where I would buy from a jerk.

Dave Salter:

So and we all probably have that thing, or a couple of things that we have.

Dave Salter:

So for me I've tried other cell phones Okay.

Dave Salter:

And I've settled on the iPhone.

Dave Salter:

That just happens to be the one that suits me best.

Dave Salter:

So if, and I'm actually getting to the end of the cycle for the one I have.

Dave Salter:

So if I walked into the, to the store that day to, to get my new iPhone and

Dave Salter:

the only sales person in there was the jerk I'm gonna put up with them.

Dave Salter:

'cause I want my iPhone.

Dave Salter:

And yeah.

Dennis Collins:

The product, the quality, the value to you supersedes the jerkiness.

Dave Salter:

Exactly.

Dave Salter:

Exactly.

Dave Salter:

Now, I would feel much better leaving the store if there was a rapport.

Dave Salter:

But knowing that I got the iPhone I wanted probably would overcome

Dave Salter:

any negative feelings I would have about the salesperson.

Dennis Collins:

I think that's pretty normal.

Dennis Collins:

Yeah.

Dennis Collins:

I think at points we overlook that likeness, that, that likeness, that cushy,

Dennis Collins:

pushy, whatever, feeling that we get.

Dennis Collins:

Buy from someone that we don't like because we see a value and a need that

Dennis Collins:

is greater than having the relationship.

Dennis Collins:

Especially on something that, that, may be not a big deal.

Dennis Collins:

It's not a big purchase.

Dennis Collins:

It's not something that really have to trust 'em.

Dennis Collins:

You already trust the product, but let me play the other side.

Dennis Collins:

What's the role of the salesperson in establishing value?

Dennis Collins:

The language of sales is questions.

Dennis Collins:

The methodology of sales is building relationships.

Dennis Collins:

Why?

Dennis Collins:

Because building relationship based on trust and rapport is essential to

Dennis Collins:

creating a positive buying experience.

Dennis Collins:

That's the other side of the coin, right?

Dennis Collins:

The role of a salesperson and value oriented sales to understand what that

Dennis Collins:

customer values, how do you know what someone values until you ask them?

Dennis Collins:

A lot of salespeople, Dave, that I've observed, they just make an

Dennis Collins:

assumption everybody values A, B, and C.

Dennis Collins:

Really?

Dennis Collins:

Are you a mind reader?

Dennis Collins:

You didn't even ask me.

Dennis Collins:

How presumptuous and how stupid and how much you're going to feel

Dennis Collins:

badly when you lose that sale.

Dennis Collins:

Okay.

Dennis Collins:

A deep understanding of customer needs.

Dennis Collins:

A deep connection establishes value.

Dennis Collins:

Salesperson CR can create then a compelling case for why they can

Dennis Collins:

meet the needs of the prospect.

Dennis Collins:

So those are the two sides of the coin.

Dave Salter:

You, you answered a question I was thinking of is, how

Dave Salter:

does the salesperson navigate the gap between establishing trust and

Dave Salter:

rapport and finish, closing the sale?

Dave Salter:

You gotta be the closer, but you also have to, so how do you play both sides of that?

Dennis Collins:

That's a pretty tough question.

Dennis Collins:

Sure.

Dennis Collins:

Understand.

Dennis Collins:

Understand how much someone trusts you.

Dennis Collins:

You know what?

Dennis Collins:

I wish I could give you three.

Dennis Collins:

There are some things that we're gonna do on a future podcast.

Dennis Collins:

I'm not going to spill the beans here.

Dennis Collins:

But there are ways you could know if somebody trusts you, do they, in the

Dennis Collins:

principles of influence, which we're gonna talk a lot about in future podcasts.

Dennis Collins:

We all say it's important that you like your customer, right?

Dennis Collins:

You like your customer.

Dennis Collins:

You know what's more important?

Dennis Collins:

According to the science and research, it's more important

Dennis Collins:

that the customer likes you.

Dennis Collins:

Okay.

Dennis Collins:

That's a switch, that's a turn, and we'll talk a lot about that.

Dennis Collins:

Okay.

Dennis Collins:

And future podcasts.

Dennis Collins:

So on one hand it's true that people tend to buy from people they like and

Dennis Collins:

trust, establishing that personal connection in some sales is critical.

Dennis Collins:

In fact, without it, you're not going to get the sale.

Dennis Collins:

But if a salesperson could build that rapport, build that trust, and

Dennis Collins:

make them feel comfortable, okay, in that first seven minutes that

Dennis Collins:

we often talk about, they're way more likely to make a purchase.

Dave Salter:

Okay.

Dave Salter:

I got a question for you.

Dave Salter:

So tell me the last time you bought something from a jerk?

Dennis Collins:

I have, I don't think I ever have either.

Dennis Collins:

I won't, I don't.

Dennis Collins:

I won't tolerate 'em.

Dennis Collins:

Okay.

Dennis Collins:

There you go.

Dennis Collins:

I just will want I, it's my money and it's my decision.

Dennis Collins:

I have a lot of options.

Dennis Collins:

I suppose the answer would be if someone came to me, Dave,

Dennis Collins:

with the cure for cancer.

Dennis Collins:

Okay.

Dennis Collins:

God forbid if I had cancer and they said, here's the cure.

Dennis Collins:

I don't care who the salesperson is.

Dennis Collins:

Okay.

Dennis Collins:

Right.

Dennis Collins:

So long as I can, so long as there is truth and value in

Dennis Collins:

the product they're selling.

Dennis Collins:

So in that case, I'd probably deal with anybody, the jerk included.

Dennis Collins:

I don't deal - ask my wife - I do not deal with jerks.

Dennis Collins:

I walk away, I embarrass her at times because I just won't deal with it.

Dennis Collins:

Right.

Dennis Collins:

I shouldn't be that way, should I?

Dave Salter:

And that, but that's all right, because you

Dave Salter:

set me up for my next question.

Dave Salter:

So tell me how liking or likability opens the door to uncovering what

Dave Salter:

the customer values and needs.

Dennis Collins:

Okay.

Dennis Collins:

Again, it goes back to one of those seven principles of influence, and

Dennis Collins:

that is the principle of liking.

Dennis Collins:

We like to do business with people who are like us, who are similar to us,

Dennis Collins:

who share our traits who act like us.

Dennis Collins:

Their social stylists like us.

Dennis Collins:

We like that.

Dennis Collins:

That's how we're most comfortable.

Dennis Collins:

But what do you do next?

Dennis Collins:

Let's say liking opens the door.

Dennis Collins:

Okay.

Dennis Collins:

That's the key that opens the door.

Dennis Collins:

But there's a couple other questions your customers are asking unconsciously.

Dennis Collins:

They're not stating them, but, Hey, I like you, but you aren't listening to me.

Dennis Collins:

You're not hearing me.

Dennis Collins:

I'm speaking, and you're often never, never land.

Dennis Collins:

Yeah.

Dennis Collins:

I like you, but you didn't really understand and diagnose my problem.

Dennis Collins:

I'm not gonna do business just because I like you.

Dennis Collins:

I, you need to understand my problem.

Dennis Collins:

You aren't offering me something.

Dennis Collins:

A value, something that I value.

Dennis Collins:

You're offering me something that you value or your company

Dennis Collins:

values, not that I value.

Dennis Collins:

So yeah, I like you, but we're not gonna do the business because you

Dennis Collins:

haven't hit my value trigger, right?

Dennis Collins:

Right.

Dennis Collins:

I like you, Dave, but I can't trust you.

Dennis Collins:

I can't trust you to do this job or this service.

Dennis Collins:

I'm not sure you're capable.

Dennis Collins:

So liking may get you in the door.

Dennis Collins:

What do you do after the door is open?

Dave Salter:

Sure, sure.

Dave Salter:

So I'm not sure if we've, since we both have never bought from a jerk or can't or

Dave Salter:

don't knowingly re recall doing so I, it, so it strikes me that the key here is.

Dave Salter:

There, there's gotta be a balance between likability and establishing

Dave Salter:

value for your service or product.

Dave Salter:

So there's gotta be some balance between those two things.

Dennis Collins:

Establishing likability is the key to the throne room, okay?

Dennis Collins:

It gets you in for an audience with the king, okay?

Dennis Collins:

Yeah.

Dennis Collins:

But if you can't make impress the King by listening, by diagnosing, by

Dennis Collins:

understanding, by offering something of value by showing trust, you're not gonna

Dennis Collins:

get the deal, so I think people, by people is probably true to a point and not true

Dennis Collins:

if you don't follow up and do the other things you need to do to create the value.

Dave Salter:

So I know when you're, when you are coaching and training folks you

Dave Salter:

go out on a lot of calls with people, you do a lot of observation absolutely.

Dave Salter:

Tell, tell me about maybe your best experience with a salesperson.

Dave Salter:

My best experience, for instance and it, and in accomplishing what we're talking

Dave Salter:

about today, establishing likability, esta, developing value, et cetera.

Dennis Collins:

I particularly have a high regard for salespeople

Dennis Collins:

who get building rapport.

Dennis Collins:

We have a thing that we also teach called strategy rapport.

Dennis Collins:

Most people, when I say that to them, they've never heard of strategy rapport.

Dennis Collins:

It's a tangent off of the concept of rapport.

Dennis Collins:

It still requires empathy.

Dennis Collins:

It requires understanding another person's point of view, another person's

Dennis Collins:

process, but it's called strategy rapport because you're unveiling

Dennis Collins:

the strategy that they're gonna use to make that particular purchase.

Dennis Collins:

So I love a salesperson who starts with that, who starts with what

Dennis Collins:

we call a sales call agenda.

Dennis Collins:

Here's what we're gonna do today, Dave.

Dennis Collins:

There are five things on my list.

Dennis Collins:

A, B, C, D, E does that capture everything for you?

Dennis Collins:

Do you would like, would you like to add anything?

Dennis Collins:

Okay.

Dennis Collins:

You add six one.

Dennis Collins:

So those are the six things we're gonna do today.

Dennis Collins:

Does that sound fair to you?

Dennis Collins:

I like a salesperson who sets the table, who sets the agenda.

Dennis Collins:

I like a salesperson who involves himself in, if not actual

Dennis Collins:

rapport, strategy rapport.

Dave Salter:

so I think what we've

Dave Salter:

come to the conclusion of is that you can be both likable and create value.

Dave Salter:

You can do both.

Dave Salter:

But you

Dave Salter:

gotta have..

Dennis Collins:

But not necessarily.

Dennis Collins:

It's not necessarily done every time.

Dave Salter:

That is correct.

Dave Salter:

We still have a lot of salespeople out there that you nor I would buy from.

Dave Salter:

That's okay.

Dave Salter:

That's a discussion.

Dave Salter:

That's a discussion for another time.

Dave Salter:

So Dennis, thanks for your wisdom and insight.

Dave Salter:

I appreciate it.

Dave Salter:

That's a wrap on another edition of Connect & Convert.

Dave Salter:

The podcast that lets you behind the curtain with insider strategies

Dave Salter:

for small business sales success.

Dave Salter:

This is Dave Salter with Dennis Collins, and we'll see you next time.

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Insider Strategies for Small Business Sales Success

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About your hosts

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Dennis Collins

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Paul Boomer

I help businesses grow up after they've grown their revenue. Think about that for a moment. You'll understand what I mean.