Episode 34

Mastering the Process: Inside the Mind of a High Achiever

In this episode, we explore the power of focusing on process over goals when training high achievers. Through the story of Jay, a highly motivated individual with no prior sales experience, we learn how a well-designed deliberate practice regimen can transform a "blank slate" into a top performer. By prioritizing the mastery of skills and processes, rather than just setting lofty targets, we can unlock the potential of driven individuals and cultivate long-term success in any industry.

Transcript
Dennis:

Welcome back.

Dennis:

It's connect and convert your sales accelerator podcast, where

Dennis:

you get insider secrets to growing your sales faster than ever.

Dennis:

I'm your host, Dennis Collins.

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I am joined today by the lovely and talented.

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Hello,

Leah:

Leah Bumfrey out of Canada, where we still have snow.

Dennis:

You still have snow.

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As we record this, I'm in Florida and we have no snow.

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I don't understand.

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How could that be?

Dennis:

Hey, Liam, today I thought we would talk about something

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that's very personal to me.

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Goal focused or process focused?

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Inside the mind of a high achiever.

Dennis:

That sounds pretty lofty.

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I don't know if I hope we can deliver to our viewers and listeners on that.

Dennis:

That's a lofty topic, but I want to start, uh, by telling a story.

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I want to introduce you to Jay.

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I knew this kid as he was growing up, but my clearest memory of him

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was when he graduated college.

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Now, this kid was an achiever in everything he did.

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I saw that.

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Because I was a tennis player at the time, and this kid didn't even start

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tennis until he was in his teens.

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And he ended up becoming a high level competitive tennis player.

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Very coachable, very smart, highly motivated.

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In college he was a criminal justice major, but he lost interest in law

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enforcement and he needed a job.

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So, I met with him, we had lunch, we talked, I had an idea.

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I had a plan.

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There was something in my belief system that I'd always wanted

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to try, but the right situation was rarely, if ever, available.

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And I said to myself, this could be the perfect opportunity.

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I'd always wanted to take someone new, someone fresh, someone without bad habits

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and preconceived ideas, basically a blank slate, and prove a long held belief.

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So, what do you think I called it?

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I call it the blank slate challenge.

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Isn't that creative?

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I like that.

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Okay.

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Well, let me tell you, maybe you will.

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Maybe you won't.

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I want your opinion on this.

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I've had this long held belief.

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Again, as I said, if I could find someone who's qualified with the right

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attitude, and as I said, the fresh new, no prior experience, no bad habits,

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no preconceived ideas, and give them a specific non traditional training

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regimen, they would have a better chance of becoming a master high performer

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than others who don't have that.

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So, when we focus on people who win, here's, here's the

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traditional thing that we think.

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They won because they had lofty, ambitious goals.

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That's what got them to the win.

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But I will say this, my theory is behind every high achiever, you will

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find a process, a system for success.

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So do you mind if I share my theory, Leah?

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Are you ready for this?

Leah:

I'm, I'm very curious.

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Cause what you're saying is, okay, this is a guy who didn't have,

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cause we're talking sales, so he had no previous sales experience.

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He didn't have that mindset of, okay, I want to be doing this.

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He knew that he was ambitious in the general sense, but you were

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going to take him and see what you could do with this blank slate.

Leah:

I'm very curious.

Dennis:

Yeah.

Dennis:

Yeah.

Dennis:

Well, big risk and you know, somewhat expensive, but let me tell

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you how I arrived at this theory.

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Bill Walsh, three times Super Bowl winner coach focus on the process.

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The score will take care of itself.

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Those words have echoed in my mind for decades.

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Goals are good to set the direction.

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We've got to have a direction.

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But processes and systems are best for building skills and making progress.

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If you, let's say you totally ignored goals.

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No goals.

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And focused only on perfecting your process, your system.

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I want to know what would happen.

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See, I don't think results are the problem.

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I think it's the systems that produce the results that are the problem.

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Okay.

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Okay.

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So.

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You already guessed it.

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I am talking about a salesperson.

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Why was this risky?

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Well, it defies conventional wisdom, wisdom.

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You know, I grew up, as you know, in the radio business and managed all the

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way through to general manager and, you know, three decades in that business.

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So I, I, the conventional wisdom was, Oh, you got to hire

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someone with radio experience.

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You got to have somebody who knows the business.

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Right.

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Right.

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Well, guess what?

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I was going against traditional wisdom.

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That's tough.

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Uh, the traditional wisdom was read a few books, go to a couple seminars,

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get out there and sell, focus on your outcomes, your targets, your goals.

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And when you hit these targets, some nice things happen.

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You make some money and you get to keep your job.

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That was how I was hired.

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I figured, you know, that was very traditional . Yep.

Dennis:

I know you've spent some time in the radio business.

Dennis:

Does that sound familiar?

Leah:

Oh, yes.

Leah:

Here's the yellow pages.

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Go make some calls,

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. Dennis: That's what I was told.

Leah:

Hey, if it hadn't been, you know, I had a burning desire to learn more, as I'm sure

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you do, and that's what is the difference.

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I taught myself this stuff, but I wanted to try this.

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Now, I don't want to negate the value of goals and targets.

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In every human endeavor, I don't care what it is, they're important.

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But there's something that I believe is more critical, and that is learning

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and installing the process for success.

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How do we get to success?

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What actions do we have to take?

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What do we have to do to get to success?

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Continuous, monitored, daily, small.

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process improvements, continuous every day monitored.

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You got to have a coach, a sales manager, a buddy, an accountability

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partner, somebody who's monitoring your, your progress.

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So here's what we did.

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My sales managers and I devised a very extensive, deliberate practice routine.

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Jay was accustomed to this.

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I knew his tennis coach, by the way.

Leah:

Um, I don't know.

Leah:

I, I had that same coach.

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I never became an exceptional tennis player.

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What the hell happened there?

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Why did Jay?

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Well, anyway, I did know the coach.

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I knew he got a high rank in tennis, even though he was relatively late.

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Uh, he was a high level college player and His coach believed in what we have heard.

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You've heard us talk about deliberate practice, break down the process into

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its component parts, deliberately practice, practice with a purpose, how to

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effectively open a sale and master that.

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Then we move on to questions.

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How many different kinds of questions do we ask in a sales conversation?

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Lots.

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How about techniques?

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How about, uh, disrupting a, a, uh, brush off or an objection?

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Master that.

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How do we do that?

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Monitored, recorded role plays.

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Not it's fine to practice by yourself, but they've got to be monitored.

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They've got to be coached to be effective.

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Deliberate practice requires coaching, instant coaching and feedback.

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Do more of this.

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Do less of that over and over and over until each segment of the

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selling process is near perfect.

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Okay.

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Every segment of the sales conversation, how to open, what kind

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of questions, how to listen, every anticipated brush off an objection.

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So of course the objective or the goals informs the process.

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It is not the process.

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It guides the process.

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Yes, we have to have results in business.

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We don't just get rewarded for process.

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The process though has to get to the result.

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We, we, we do the process.

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We check the result.

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We make the necessary correction.

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We're a little bit off here.

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We're a little bit off there.

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It's like firing an arrow at Archer, you know, okay, I'm bullseye, move

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over just a tad, blah, blah, blah.

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Repeat until the execution of the process produces the desired outcome.

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So Dennis, I want to make sure I understand what you're saying.

Leah:

Of course.

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So you know, you would know, you would be communicating to Jay

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where it is you want him to go.

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But then you're giving him basically a template of activities this this

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this and this with with monitored Feedback so that you're telling him.

Leah:

Nope.

Leah:

Not like that.

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Do this.

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Nope.

Leah:

Not like that do this and Critically he's teachable He's in student mode.

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He is not feeling.

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Oh, quit telling me this.

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Almost like that.

Leah:

Well, exactly like his coach in tennis.

Leah:

You, there would be a trust that, that he would have to have a trust that you're

Leah:

doing this for the, for his benefit.

Dennis:

Yeah.

Dennis:

He would have to have, you know, again, this was a, a wonderfully motivated.

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Person He would have to have a vision of his future success.

Dennis:

Okay.

Dennis:

Again If you have someone who doesn't care or is not motivated to become

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better, this doesn't work okay, right this kid wanted to be better he proved

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that to me in many ways as I knew him and watched him grow up otherwise You're

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you're hitting on a you know, one of the weaknesses of this it wouldn't work.

Dennis:

It doesn't work for everybody Okay Bye.

Leah:

Yeah.

Leah:

If you have someone who wants it and you have someone who wants you

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your success, it's a, it's a match.

Leah:

Like so many relationships, right?

Dennis:

I can teach skills.

Dennis:

You can teach skills.

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We can teach skills.

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I haven't found a way yet to teach motivation.

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Okay.

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I can tell if someone has it or not, but I, I can, I can try to create

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an environment that's motivating, but I can't motivate anybody.

Dennis:

Thank you.

Dennis:

That's, you know, hire for attitude, train and skills.

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That was my motto, hire for attitude, for motivation.

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This kid had the right attitude.

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I had the sales managers and I had the knowledge about what skills were

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needed for him to be successful.

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Okay.

Dennis:

Does that make sense?

Leah:

Okay.

Leah:

It does.

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And what I love about it is that this applies to any industry because the

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people already in it know the skills.

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And if you have someone motivated, you have that right person and hire

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for the person because, uh, then you're not having to also, um, train

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out bad habits, you know, don't do this, don't do this, don't do this.

Leah:

That's really hard once they're embedded.

Dennis:

I, if I had a dollar for every one of those people that I hired in the radio

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industry, Leah, we'd be doing this podcast from my yacht somewhere in the Caribbean.

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Okay.

Dennis:

I mean, that, that is a killer.

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That's what I got tired of.

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And I wanted to try this and I tried this in other forms too, not

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just with this brand new person.

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And it's, it, it's, it does work.

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It works best with this scenario.

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But it worked in other scenarios that were similar to this.

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Okay.

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Traditionally, what happens when we put a new salesperson out there,

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we give them some cursory training.

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Here's your Riella pages.

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See ya.

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And by the way, if you don't hit this target in three months, you're fired.

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What does that do to their psyche?

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What does that do to their emotions?

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Their, what does it do to their anxiety?

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How is that a good way?

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to onboard a salesperson.

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I've never understood that.

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Guilty.

Dennis:

Yeah, I had, I have done that at times.

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I don't, I'm not proud of that, but I tried never to do that.

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And this was an experiment that proved, and I'll tell you why.

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So you might ask, well, what's become of Jay?

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Well, he spent a very successful time as a salesperson, but not for long.

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Uh, we parted ways many years ago, but.

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He became a sales manager when he left our company and eventually became a major a

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sales manager for a major pharmaceutical, uh, international pharmaceutical firm.

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They then started his own business and sold it successfully.

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He's now a partner in an exciting new startup, mostly because he

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understands and masters process.

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the process of persuasion, the process of communication, the process of influence.

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As you said, Leah, these skills, this process works across many disciplines.

Dennis:

Wow.

Leah:

What I am excited about hearing you, well, it gets me excited because

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there are many people out there that are motivated for their own success.

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They want to make a difference in business.

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They might not have the, the foundation of a specific industry.

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It's the finding of those people that can make the difference in any business.

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And this is a template that anyone listening, any, any business manager,

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any business owner can take, but also any sales professional can look at themselves

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and go, okay, am I in student mode?

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Am I willing to learn?

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Am I looking at what I, the basic foundation of what I should be doing?

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Because when you have those droughts where the success isn't happening,

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when you're not achieving your goals, sometimes you have to look inward.

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And this template, this process that you're talking about gives.

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Both sides.

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The opportunity to look at that.

Leah:

Um, you were talking about communication and, you know, those basic skills.

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And again, that always brings me back to Wizard Academy where they teach that

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they teach that to people who are open.

Leah:

And when you're open to learning, wow.

Dennis:

That's a great point.

Dennis:

Jay was open to learning.

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Had he been closed off to learning, not only would this experiment

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not have worked, but he wouldn't like the Wizard Academy, would he?

Dennis:

No, no, no.

Dennis:

You need to approach the Wizard Academy with an open mind, you know?

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Because I guarantee you, one visit there and your mind will explode.

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Wizardacademy.

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org.

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Our sponsor, we appreciate them and you will appreciate checking

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them out at wizardacademy.

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org.

Dennis:

So let's issue our breakout challenge.

Dennis:

We always try to end this with a challenge, right, Leah?

Dennis:

Yes, absolutely.

Dennis:

So, so how daring are you?

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Do you have people in your organization who have that potential to be great, but

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they just don't seem to be getting it?

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If they have the attitude and the motivation and the desire,

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it's probably about the training.

Dennis:

Are you willing to do your version of the blank slate challenge?

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By the way, it can be done with the right person, the right regimen, the

Dennis:

right regimen of deliberate practice.

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Jay is living example of that.

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Are you bold enough to try it?

Dennis:

Okay.

Leah:

This is about building people.

Leah:

It's about building business and it's about building potential in industries.

Leah:

It's very exciting.

Dennis:

It is.

Dennis:

But to me, that's the bedrock of my philosophy of human performance

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that give me the blank slate that has the attitude and the motivation

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to get better and we can find a way to train the process and the skills.

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But the process and the skills determine the level of flight.

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How high you go is not how high you set your goal.

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It's how much skill you have and how much successful process you have.

Dennis:

I think fantastic.

Dennis:

I think we've covered this, Leo.

Dennis:

I love your questions.

Dennis:

Is there anything else that puzzles you about this or that you'd like

Dennis:

to ask on behalf of our listeners?

Leah:

Well, I mean, if it hadn't worked when it, when it doesn't

Leah:

work, I'm sure you have the other side of it when it doesn't, is

Leah:

there a P what's what's missing?

Leah:

What, what is missing when it's not working?

Dennis:

There are several things.

Dennis:

Number one, the raw material.

Dennis:

If, if you made a bad selection, in other words, this person does not

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want to grow, they are not motivated.

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They don't have the proper mentality.

Dennis:

And, and people can fake that.

Dennis:

I hate to say it, you know, job interviews are a joke, right?

Dennis:

I mean, you could, they could tell you anything.

Dennis:

I mean, you know, I never relied on interviews to, to hire a person.

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I go deeper than that.

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So you could have the wrong person.

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Number two, it's time consuming to do deliberate practice to train that.

Dennis:

You gotta have the manpower, the person power.

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To do that, you've got to, luckily I had, you know, about five sales

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managers working with me that I could task, you know, myself

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and them with each part of this.

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So no one of us had to do it all.

Dennis:

So actually doing the, the deliberate practice is hard.

Dennis:

It's outside the comfort zone by definition.

Dennis:

If, if, if practice is comfortable for you, you are

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not doing deliberate practice.

Dennis:

So, you know, it's too hard and we, it's just a time thing.

Dennis:

We just don't have it.

Dennis:

Or if If the deliberate practice is not designed properly to eventually

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produce a desirable result, you know, I'm not saying throw goals away.

Dennis:

I'm saying put goals aside at first so we don't have that emotional attachment

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to making the goal and have the emotional attachment to building your process.

Dennis:

Those are the three things that I think work and go wrong.

Dennis:

But today I wanted to talk about where it went right.

Leah:

And, and you know what, for every time it goes wrong, that doesn't

Leah:

mean, like, I mean, I love that you, you're, you've clarified it's the

Leah:

person, it's the how, it's the why.

Leah:

Those are all the reasons to make it work.

Leah:

Because when you find, I mean, just think of any industry, when you find

Leah:

the gem sitting in the warehouse, working on parts, and you can just

Leah:

see that it's the right type of person that already understands your industry.

Leah:

Wow.

Leah:

If you can get them on the sales floor, they, they are so excited.

Leah:

They are so motivated and they are so loyal.

Leah:

It changes business.

Leah:

Yeah.

Dennis:

They're just waiting for their chance for someone to believe in them.

Dennis:

So you know, your radar has to be on at all times because those

Dennis:

people are in your organization.

Dennis:

I guarantee it.

Dennis:

It's not just finding a guy like Jay who was outside and I brought him in.

Dennis:

They're inside your organization.

Dennis:

Put your radar on.

Dennis:

We'll do a podcast on that one day.

Dennis:

How's that?

Leah:

I'm excited.

Leah:

I'm excited to hear from our listeners and watchers when they do this and the people

Leah:

that they find the gems that they find and yes, how it helps the organization.

Dennis:

Yeah.

Dennis:

Send in your comments and questions.

Dennis:

We'd be happy to put them on the, uh, on the air.

Dennis:

Okay.

Dennis:

Okay, let's close out another episode of Connect and Convert

Dennis:

the Sales Accelerator Podcast.

Dennis:

We'll be back next week.

Dennis:

Tune in.

Dennis:

Thanks for listening.

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Dennis Collins

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Paul Boomer

I help businesses grow up after they've grown their revenue. Think about that for a moment. You'll understand what I mean.