076 - Building a Family Business Legacy: The Flaman Story

Speaker: 00:00:00

. Dennis Collins: Hey, welcome back to connect and convert.

Speaker: 00:00:13

Yes.

Speaker: 00:00:14

Another episode of connect and convert where small business owners come to accelerate their sales faster than ever.

Speaker: 00:00:24

Isn't that right?

Speaker: 00:00:25

Leah Bumphrey

Leah Bumphrey: 00:00:27

is correct.

Leah Bumphrey: 00:00:28

Absolutely.

Leah Bumphrey: 00:00:29

It's all business owners, not our business owners who are small.

Leah Bumphrey: 00:00:32

We take them in all sizes, all shapes.

Dennis Collins: 00:00:36

Correct.

Dennis Collins: 00:00:37

And we love them all.

Dennis Collins: 00:00:38

Don't we?

Dennis Collins: 00:00:39

And speaking of that, before we get onto today's topic, uh, uh, I, I want to dive

Dennis Collins: 00:00:46

into kind of a favorite topic of Wizard of Ads people, and that's strategy.

Dennis Collins: 00:00:53

Strategy.

Dennis Collins: 00:00:54

So before we get there though, before we get there, uh, we have a special offer for our listeners.

Dennis Collins: 00:00:59

We tell you in every, uh, one of our podcasts, we want to remind you of our special offer.

Dennis Collins: 00:01:05

Don't we Leah?

Leah Bumphrey: 00:01:06

Absolutely.

Leah Bumphrey: 00:01:07

It is part of our strategy for helping business owners.

Leah Bumphrey: 00:01:10

And it is should be part of the strategy of business owners to

Leah Bumphrey: 00:01:14

get some outside help to get an inside outside perspective.

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Dennis and I are offering 60 minute discovery calls that are free.

Leah Bumphrey: 00:01:23

We can talk about any topic of your business that is salient to you.

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Maybe something that you've heard us talk about and you want

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some more information that's more specific, but it's free.

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Email Leah Bumphrey at Wizard of Ads.

Leah Bumphrey: 00:01:35

com.

Leah Bumphrey: 00:01:35

Email Dennis Collins at Wizard of Ads.

Leah Bumphrey: 00:01:37

com.

Leah Bumphrey: 00:01:38

We will get back to you.

Leah Bumphrey: 00:01:39

We will schedule in 60 minutes where we can talk about, an expanded version of maybe a question that you've sent in.

Leah Bumphrey: 00:01:46

We've taken advantage of our free offer.

Leah Bumphrey: 00:01:48

It's all about trying to help you strategize your business back to you, Dennis.

Dennis Collins: 00:01:54

Thank you.

Dennis Collins: 00:01:54

And if you're in the US or other countries, we will schedule a meeting.

Dennis Collins: 00:01:58

Okay, sorry.

Dennis Collins: 00:02:01

I had to translate.

Dennis Collins: 00:02:03

Wanted to make sure everybody understood that.

Dennis Collins: 00:02:05

Okay,

Leah Bumphrey: 00:02:05

speak Canadian.

Dennis Collins: 00:02:07

All right.

Dennis Collins: 00:02:07

Well, we, we get the drift anyway.

Leah Bumphrey: 00:02:10

Oh, Dennis.

Leah Bumphrey: 00:02:11

I am so excited that we are sitting here with Mark Flaman.

Leah Bumphrey: 00:02:14

He is a part of a family owned business here in Saskatchewan.

Leah Bumphrey: 00:02:19

That is just so unique and second to none.

Leah Bumphrey: 00:02:21

Mark, it's third generation, fourth generation.

Mark Flaman: 00:02:25

We're a third generation now.

Leah Bumphrey: 00:02:26

Third generation.

Leah Bumphrey: 00:02:27

And they started from like all great businesses from humble

Leah Bumphrey: 00:02:31

roots with a character of a grandpa that got it going.

Leah Bumphrey: 00:02:35

So Dennis, I really wanted you to meet, meet Mark and we're going to

Leah Bumphrey: 00:02:39

pull a whole bunch of stuff about family owned businesses from him today.

Dennis Collins: 00:02:42

Well, I'd love it when we have guests, Leah, especially,

Dennis Collins: 00:02:45

uh, uh, someone you've given us a little background on, on Mark.

Dennis Collins: 00:02:48

I can't wait to, to dig in and find out the secrets.

Dennis Collins: 00:02:54

Plus all the secrets, but some of the secrets.

Leah Bumphrey: 00:02:59

So Mark, tell for our listeners and our viewers

Leah Bumphrey: 00:03:02

that aren't from Saskatchewan, aren't from Western Canada.

Leah Bumphrey: 00:03:05

Flaman, what do you guys do?

Mark Flaman: 00:03:08

So, uh, we're a agricultural equipment retail company.

Mark Flaman: 00:03:13

Uh, we don't sell any of the big self powered stuff like sprayers, combines, tractors, uh, but, uh,

Mark Flaman: 00:03:19

Everything that you'd need to set up a farm from front to back outside of that self powered equipment.

Mark Flaman: 00:03:26

So, uh, we sell grain dryer systems and, uh, grain monitoring systems, bins,

Mark Flaman: 00:03:33

augers, uh, field equipment, breaking discs, uh, All that sort of stuff.

Mark Flaman: 00:03:38

And then, of course, the parts and the aftermarket divisions also support that as well.

Mark Flaman: 00:03:43

So, we service and maintain all of the equipment that we sell.

Mark Flaman: 00:03:47

And we've got rental dealers across Western Canada.

Mark Flaman: 00:03:49

I think we're probably close to about 100 rental dealers now as well.

Mark Flaman: 00:03:53

Um, at one point, we had a, uh, fitness retail equipment, uh, retail fitness equipment business as well.

Mark Flaman: 00:04:00

Uh, that kind of stretched pretty much Canada wide.

Mark Flaman: 00:04:02

And, um And so yeah, we've, we've, we've grown into a number of different businesses that, you

Mark Flaman: 00:04:07

know, either complement each other or, uh, help the sales keep flowing

Mark Flaman: 00:04:13

through when, when it's, you know, good farming seasonal, right?

Mark Flaman: 00:04:16

So, um, so yeah, so that's, that's what we're all about.

Leah Bumphrey: 00:04:19

Which sounds really straight ahead and very kind of rigid.

Leah Bumphrey: 00:04:23

Okay.

Leah Bumphrey: 00:04:23

It's farm stuff.

Leah Bumphrey: 00:04:24

But when you and I were talking a couple of weeks ago and you Basically

Leah Bumphrey: 00:04:28

introduced me to your grandpa, not literally, but just with stories.

Mark Flaman: 00:04:33

Mmh

Leah Bumphrey: 00:04:33

He's the guy that got this all going off the farm in Southey.

Leah Bumphrey: 00:04:36

So small town, Saskatchewan.

Mark Flaman: 00:04:38

Yeah, totally.

Mark Flaman: 00:04:39

So, um, in 1959, um, as the story goes, my grandpa, Frank, uh,

Mark Flaman: 00:04:45

He was, uh, I guess I'll just start with his background quick.

Mark Flaman: 00:04:49

Um, his parents, uh, they, they founded the original, uh, Flaman Family Farm, uh, one mile north of Southey,

Mark Flaman: 00:04:58

Saskatchewan, which is about 25 minutes north of Regina, and Frank was, I believe, I think he was the youngest

Mark Flaman: 00:05:05

of 10 kids or close to the youngest of 10 kids and, uh, and he was, he was the one that stayed on the farm and

Mark Flaman: 00:05:13

he was, he was planning on working the land and, and, and growing the farm, uh, they needed a few more grain bins

Mark Flaman: 00:05:19

one year than what they already had for storage and, um, some argue by accident and some others will argue by,

Mark Flaman: 00:05:26

you know, on purpose, but, uh, he, he wound up ordering about a Uh, I can't remember exactly what the number is,

Mark Flaman: 00:05:33

but let's say 10 extra green bins than what he originally planned on getting.

Mark Flaman: 00:05:37

He put an ad out and he said, Hey, I've got these green bins and we will erect them for you and we'll build them and

Mark Flaman: 00:05:44

we'll, um, and, and, uh, so he puts this ad out and he sells the 10 bins.

Mark Flaman: 00:05:49

And then the next year he ordered twice as many bins as

Mark Flaman: 00:05:52

he had the year previous, and he just kept rolling like that.

Mark Flaman: 00:05:55

So, yeah, that's kind of how well, how everything started there.

Leah Bumphrey: 00:05:59

Oh, he just had a, had a vision for, for the possibilities.

Mark Flaman: 00:06:04

Yeah, he saw, he saw a need back then, you know, you'd order some

Mark Flaman: 00:06:07

bins from Manitoba, from wherever, you know, Chief Westland bins from wherever.

Mark Flaman: 00:06:11

And then they'd show up on a truck and then you'd get together with

Mark Flaman: 00:06:13

a couple of buddies and drink some beers, I guess, and build them.

Mark Flaman: 00:06:16

But he wanted to offer a week, you know, turn key, we'll come out and this stuff will be set up and we'll put it there.

Mark Flaman: 00:06:22

And, And, uh, and guys liked that.

Mark Flaman: 00:06:24

And I mean, back then we're not, you know, we're talking maybe,

Mark Flaman: 00:06:27

you know, a thousand bushels or fifteen hundred bushels.

Mark Flaman: 00:06:29

It's nothing like what we see on the farm today, but, uh, back then that was, that was the offer.

Leah Bumphrey: 00:06:35

And he, he flew an airplane too.

Leah Bumphrey: 00:06:37

And that, that became part of what you guys did.

Mark Flaman: 00:06:40

Yeah, exactly.

Mark Flaman: 00:06:41

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mark Flaman: 00:06:42

He, uh, he got his pilot's license.

Mark Flaman: 00:06:46

I think in the sometime in the early 70s or maybe mid 70s, he wound up, um, uh, he wound up with an aircraft that

Mark Flaman: 00:06:55

he'd fly around the province, land on a grid road, and then taxi into a

Mark Flaman: 00:07:00

down a customer's driveway and then, or a potential customer's driveway.

Mark Flaman: 00:07:06

So they'd hear this low hum overhead, and then here comes this guy, he'd land his plane and then, and then go into the

Mark Flaman: 00:07:11

customer's yard with his product list, you know, hi, my name is Frank Flaman.

Mark Flaman: 00:07:15

And what do you need to continue farming?

Mark Flaman: 00:07:17

And then he'd take the kids, you know, the farm kids for rides for free and that sort of thing.

Mark Flaman: 00:07:21

There was, uh, the, the one story that was told to me, um, by, by the, by the producer himself, um, And I don't

Mark Flaman: 00:07:32

know how many years back this would have been, maybe a few decades ago.

Mark Flaman: 00:07:35

But he was reading an ad in the Western Producer for this new type of aeration fan.

Mark Flaman: 00:07:39

And so, on a Sunday morning, he called the phone number and he talked to Grandpa Frank.

Mark Flaman: 00:07:43

And Frank says, you know, give me your land location.

Mark Flaman: 00:07:46

Uh, maybe just send a check in the mail and then we'll get this thing brought out to you.

Mark Flaman: 00:07:50

And about two and a half hours later, the customer hears this, this low hum flying overhead and he looks

Mark Flaman: 00:07:56

up and there's an aircraft circling the farm and, uh, the customer

Mark Flaman: 00:08:01

I'm talking about, his driveway is about a quarter mile long.

Mark Flaman: 00:08:03

Uh, Frank landed on his driveway and used part of the field as the

Mark Flaman: 00:08:08

run out and he came back and he, he taxis the plane up to the house.

Mark Flaman: 00:08:13

And Bobby, the, the customer, he's looking inside of the plane on his front porch drinking a coffee, and there's

Mark Flaman: 00:08:20

an aeration fan in the passenger seat of this little four passenger aircraft.

Mark Flaman: 00:08:24

And Frank can't get out of the plane unless somebody takes this fan out first.

Mark Flaman: 00:08:29

So he says, what Frank said, well, I don't know.

Mark Flaman: 00:08:32

I got off the phone call with you and decided to go for a plane ride.

Mark Flaman: 00:08:35

So anyway, here's your fan.

Dennis Collins: 00:08:37

That's our problem, leah.

Dennis Collins: 00:08:39

We don't have an airplane.

Dennis Collins: 00:08:40

We

Leah Bumphrey: 00:08:42

go ahead and get that license and you can take me for a ride.

Dennis Collins: 00:08:45

Wouldn't you wouldn't fly with me anyway.

Dennis Collins: 00:08:47

You'd be afraid.

Dennis Collins: 00:08:50

Say, Hey Mark, it's really nice to meet you.

Dennis Collins: 00:08:52

I, um, uh, I really love hearing these stories.

Dennis Collins: 00:08:56

The, what we call them, the founder story, the origin story.

Dennis Collins: 00:08:59

Those are all so instructive about how small businesses get started and how they stay going.

Dennis Collins: 00:09:06

Uh, but I was looking at your website and something, um, a couple of things hit me.

Dennis Collins: 00:09:10

I'll mention a couple of them.

Dennis Collins: 00:09:12

There was a line there.

Dennis Collins: 00:09:14

Uh, we're never strangers to diversification.

Dennis Collins: 00:09:19

We're never strangers to diversification.

Dennis Collins: 00:09:21

So then I looked a little further.

Dennis Collins: 00:09:23

I says, my gosh, now you have like eight divisions, Ag, and trailers, and

Dennis Collins: 00:09:28

trailer service, and rentals, and grain systems, and fitness, and apparel.

Dennis Collins: 00:09:33

I mean, wow, those are pretty disparate, um, disciplines.

Dennis Collins: 00:09:38

How did that all happen?

Mark Flaman: 00:09:40

I think in part, we all picked that up in our own way from from grandpa Frank.

Mark Flaman: 00:09:44

Um, so we had originally started selling.

Mark Flaman: 00:09:48

I shouldn't say we, but grandpa started selling bins off the farm.

Mark Flaman: 00:09:51

And as my dad tells me, he had been about, you know, 10 or 11 years old and a farmer would come to pick up

Mark Flaman: 00:09:57

equipment and while they're loading his truck, grandpa would tell my dad,

Mark Flaman: 00:10:01

Steve, Hey, go show them the hi fi stereos in the van body over there.

Mark Flaman: 00:10:05

So then dad would take the, and it's right.

Mark Flaman: 00:10:08

And so it's just, it's out of control.

Mark Flaman: 00:10:11

Cause we, we look at one of the original, you know, the catalogs from the sixties and there's Chester Fields.

Mark Flaman: 00:10:17

And I mean, we had a carpet store at one point and all of this different stuff that we are trying out.

Mark Flaman: 00:10:22

Wow.

Mark Flaman: 00:10:23

Frank bought a carpet store in Regina, and his first order of business was to

Mark Flaman: 00:10:27

replace all the carpet in the church in Southey with like two inch shade carpet.

Mark Flaman: 00:10:32

And then everybody shows up and goes, holy smokes, what is this?

Mark Flaman: 00:10:34

And then, oh, where'd you get this?

Mark Flaman: 00:10:36

And then, oh, go talk to Frank, and then all of a sudden, you know, it's a whole thing or whatever.

Leah Bumphrey: 00:10:39

So he donated the shade carpet to the church in Southey?

Mark Flaman: 00:10:43

Yeah, so he put shag carpet in the church.

Mark Flaman: 00:10:45

Yeah, yeah,

Dennis Collins: 00:10:46

yeah.

Dennis Collins: 00:10:46

What a great marketing ploy.

Dennis Collins: 00:10:47

And I shouldn't use the word ploy because he didn't see it as a ploy.

Dennis Collins: 00:10:51

He was gifting the church and it turns out it's the foundation of another business.

Mark Flaman: 00:10:57

Yeah, yeah.

Mark Flaman: 00:10:59

And so there's a lot of stuff like that that we looked up to him, um, for, and he was, uh, He was a really good

Mark Flaman: 00:11:05

mentor in getting way outside of the box, you know, oftentimes there will be somebody who gets into industry and

Mark Flaman: 00:11:12

then they're locked into that industry and we've never really seen it like we're locked into just one thing.

Mark Flaman: 00:11:17

Um, I mean, of course, we want to be able to do everything that we do to the best of our abilities.

Mark Flaman: 00:11:21

Um, but I mean, with the amazing team of people that we have, and

Mark Flaman: 00:11:25

we've been extremely selective with our, with our hiring process.

Mark Flaman: 00:11:28

we do really have an unbeatable team.

Dennis Collins: 00:11:30

That's great.

Leah Bumphrey: 00:11:31

I love the story of him getting the shipping container.

Leah Bumphrey: 00:11:34

Was it full of shovels or something?

Mark Flaman: 00:11:38

You know, so my, in the third generation, there's myself.

Mark Flaman: 00:11:43

I'm about middle of the pack and then I've got two older

Mark Flaman: 00:11:45

cousins, uh, Kurt and Ryan, two younger cousins, Mitch and April.

Mark Flaman: 00:11:50

Um, and we're all within about four years of each other.

Mark Flaman: 00:11:52

And so there was a time where Kurt, Mitch, Ryan, and myself, we were all Working in the yard and there

Mark Flaman: 00:11:59

would be a random shipping container would show up with like 10,000

Mark Flaman: 00:12:02

spade shovels in it and we would have no idea what to do with them.

Mark Flaman: 00:12:05

And then Frank would call us.

Mark Flaman: 00:12:06

Hey, did you guys get the shovels?

Mark Flaman: 00:12:07

You know put one on every single auger that goes out of the yard in the entire company for the next five

Mark Flaman: 00:12:11

years That's what those are forges Just get them out to where, you know, we'd have, uh, you know, a truck full

Mark Flaman: 00:12:17

of electronic, you know, pedal assist scooters show up from China and there's

Mark Flaman: 00:12:23

actually on, on that note, there's, uh, you know, um, uh, I think, uh, Leah, I was, I was maybe telling

Mark Flaman: 00:12:30

you about the, uh, the, uh, the charter tour company that he had.

Leah Bumphrey: 00:12:35

This is great.

Leah Bumphrey: 00:12:35

Dennis, you're going to love this.

Leah Bumphrey: 00:12:37

Cause you know.

Dennis Collins: 00:12:37

I read about this on the website as well.

Dennis Collins: 00:12:40

I was going to ask him, but here we go.

Mark Flaman: 00:12:42

Yeah.

Mark Flaman: 00:12:42

So, uh, uh, my dad, he, uh, when, when, you know, grandpa moved,

Mark Flaman: 00:12:48

uh, I think this would have been in the late seventies, sometime.

Mark Flaman: 00:12:51

Grandpa moved to Alberta to start getting business fired up, um, at a couple of locations out there.

Mark Flaman: 00:12:56

So he had left the original Southey location to Steve or to Don into, uh, to Rudy to run.

Mark Flaman: 00:13:02

And, and my dad was living in Regina at the time.

Mark Flaman: 00:13:04

Um, he was a little younger, but.

Mark Flaman: 00:13:07

Don and Rudy, they're at the, at the Southey store, and they start getting

Mark Flaman: 00:13:11

these phone calls about a chartered bus tour to the interior of Mexico.

Mark Flaman: 00:13:17

And they're thinking, what the heck is this?

Mark Flaman: 00:13:18

Like, we're selling grain bins, and we're selling augers, and

Mark Flaman: 00:13:20

we're selling, you know, aeration equipment, and ducting, and whatever.

Mark Flaman: 00:13:24

What is this bus charter tour thing to Mexico all about?

Mark Flaman: 00:13:27

Well, after a few days and a few dozen phone calls later, Frank busts through the door.

Mark Flaman: 00:13:32

He had come home from Alberta.

Mark Flaman: 00:13:33

He busts through the door at the Southey store, and he says, uh, Hey, so, uh, you guys getting any,

Mark Flaman: 00:13:38

any, any phone calls about the, uh, you know, the bus tours to Mexico?

Mark Flaman: 00:13:42

And they said, yeah, we were going to ask something about, like, what the heck is going on here?

Mark Flaman: 00:13:46

What, what had happened was Frank took out a, like, a full page ad in the Western Producer.

Mark Flaman: 00:13:50

And he said, hi, my name is Frank Flaman.

Mark Flaman: 00:13:52

Here's a picture of my daughter, Carmela.

Mark Flaman: 00:13:54

She married a Mexican fella, and they're living a great life down there, and we want to show people who haven't really

Mark Flaman: 00:14:00

traveled outside of rural Saskatchewan, you know, another part of the world, and that was a part of the world

Mark Flaman: 00:14:05

where, you know, Frank, he had a large school bus when all of his 10 kids were young, and they would go down to

Mark Flaman: 00:14:13

Mexico, and they would frequent Mexico every year for a couple of months.

Mark Flaman: 00:14:17

And so, Imagine you've got a few people at the store going, okay, but what this bus tour thing?

Mark Flaman: 00:14:24

And Frank says, Oh, yeah.

Mark Flaman: 00:14:25

Well, I took out the full page ad and it sounds like we're getting phone calls.

Mark Flaman: 00:14:28

So he was in and out in about five minutes.

Mark Flaman: 00:14:30

He said, okay, but the ad's working, right?

Mark Flaman: 00:14:32

And they said, well, yeah, it's working.

Mark Flaman: 00:14:33

We've got a list of names and numbers, but we don't know what to do with this stuff.

Mark Flaman: 00:14:36

And Frank says, don't worry.

Mark Flaman: 00:14:37

We'll figure that out later.

Mark Flaman: 00:14:38

And then he drove south to Regina to go line up buying some charter buses, and then they got some buses,

Mark Flaman: 00:14:44

and they had the shirts made, and then pretty soon they've got farmers on buses going down to Mexico.

Dennis Collins: 00:14:49

So he created the demand before he even had the buses.

Mark Flaman: 00:14:53

Yeah, for him it was just like, if he found something unique and interesting, similar

Mark Flaman: 00:14:58

to the first treadmills that were brought into Canada, right?

Mark Flaman: 00:15:01

He would just go, okay, uh, we've created a little bit of a stir.

Mark Flaman: 00:15:06

Do it and deal with the consequences later.

Mark Flaman: 00:15:08

And it seemed to have worked out with a, with a few of our product lines.

Mark Flaman: 00:15:11

Yeah.

Leah Bumphrey: 00:15:11

No fear.

Leah Bumphrey: 00:15:12

And what I love about the charter bus was, okay, the, he had a little bit of a personal story cause he had.

Leah Bumphrey: 00:15:19

Taking a school bus with the 10 kids and, and presumably mom, they went down to Mexico to get ready,

Leah Bumphrey: 00:15:24

get, get, uh, out of the, the, the winter era that we enjoy here.

Leah Bumphrey: 00:15:29

He saw it as a plan, the ad that he took out and Dennis, the Western Producer is a very, it's, it's still going now.

Leah Bumphrey: 00:15:36

It's one of those print magazines.

Leah Bumphrey: 00:15:37

It's very, very specific everywhere.

Leah Bumphrey: 00:15:39

I think there's not a farmer that wouldn't subscribe to it.

Leah Bumphrey: 00:15:42

And.

Leah Bumphrey: 00:15:43

He took an ad out that was about his lived experience.

Leah Bumphrey: 00:15:46

So it wasn't pretend.

Leah Bumphrey: 00:15:48

It's like, Hey, this is what our daughter did.

Leah Bumphrey: 00:15:49

This is what we do come with us.

Mark Flaman: 00:15:53

That's exactly it.

Mark Flaman: 00:15:54

Yeah.

Mark Flaman: 00:15:54

I, we, and we've got, uh, the old reels from the, you know, Frank,

Mark Flaman: 00:15:58

Frank, what he had, he had bought with the, with the business.

Mark Flaman: 00:16:01

I'm assuming a. One of the first types of, you know, personal camcorder type units.

Mark Flaman: 00:16:07

It was a like a personal With the big reels and stuff and we had all that stuff digitized And so when Frank

Mark Flaman: 00:16:13

passed away a couple a couple falls ago we We were able to take all of this video and create a little bit

Mark Flaman: 00:16:22

of a slideshow and I'll forward it to you all after the the podcast here, but it's it's really incredible.

Mark Flaman: 00:16:27

We've got video of him you know, flying, landing in a customer's yard.

Mark Flaman: 00:16:30

And then the next clip, there's a school bus with a bunch of kids running out of it.

Mark Flaman: 00:16:34

And it wasn't, you know, it wasn't like they just decided to do this on a whim.

Mark Flaman: 00:16:39

Obviously, it came from a place of heart, but they really wanted to show,

Mark Flaman: 00:16:43

um, You know, grandma and grandpa, they wanted to show their 10 kids.

Mark Flaman: 00:16:46

There were three brothers and seven sisters.

Mark Flaman: 00:16:48

They wanted to show them what life could look like outside of just kind of these four walls that is the schedule.

Mark Flaman: 00:16:54

And they did a good job of that.

Mark Flaman: 00:16:56

I've got several of my, uh, you know, if I had to sit down and count probably I'll just guesstimate maybe

Mark Flaman: 00:17:01

like six out of the 10 kids wound up speaking, uh, you know, uh, Spanish pretty fluently and stuff like that.

Mark Flaman: 00:17:08

So it was a big impact on us.

Mark Flaman: 00:17:09

Yeah.

Mark Flaman: 00:17:10

Yeah.

Dennis Collins: 00:17:10

So you still have a family foundation.

Dennis Collins: 00:17:13

I think I read on your website.

Dennis Collins: 00:17:14

Uh, you're still very active in the community.

Mark Flaman: 00:17:16

Yeah.

Mark Flaman: 00:17:17

So, um, I guess before we get into that, just a quick little, uh,

Mark Flaman: 00:17:21

footnote on the, uh, on, on how all that stuff is kind of organized.

Mark Flaman: 00:17:25

We've got, uh, the Flaman group of companies is founded and based in Saskatchewan.

Mark Flaman: 00:17:31

When my grandfather moved to Alberta, he started Frank Flaman sales.

Mark Flaman: 00:17:34

Uh, limited.

Mark Flaman: 00:17:35

And so the Alberta, Saskatchewan border is dividing line between the two companies.

Mark Flaman: 00:17:41

So my father and his two brothers, uh, they've, they've got the business here and, and, and, and into Manitoba.

Mark Flaman: 00:17:48

Now the Alberta business is actually owned by a company

Mark Flaman: 00:17:53

called, or a foundation called the Frank Flaman Foundation.

Mark Flaman: 00:17:57

And.

Mark Flaman: 00:17:58

I believe that it would have been about back in, I want to say 2009, 2010, we had the first foundation

Mark Flaman: 00:18:06

gala where he gave away 1,000,000 dollars and he continued to do that for 10 different charities.

Mark Flaman: 00:18:12

Uh, he gave each of them 100,000 dollars and then, um, as time

Mark Flaman: 00:18:17

went on and he came a little bit closer to the end of his.

Mark Flaman: 00:18:21

Uh, the end of his ride on, on, on this planet, uh, he started to give away more and more and more last year.

Mark Flaman: 00:18:29

We crossed the 25 million total donation threshold.

Mark Flaman: 00:18:32

So, uh, when they would go down to Mexico, they would obviously they bring stuff for all the kids in the

Mark Flaman: 00:18:40

villages that they would, you know, they're doing the interior loop.

Mark Flaman: 00:18:43

They're not, uh, they weren't so much doing all the touristy stuff.

Mark Flaman: 00:18:47

So they would, you know, often.

Mark Flaman: 00:18:48

And, and I mean, that, that was, uh.

Mark Flaman: 00:18:50

That's that was how I grew up.

Mark Flaman: 00:18:52

There were times where we'd go down to Mexico for a vacation, and it was kind of second nature that, hey, if

Mark Flaman: 00:18:56

we're traveling near Christmas time, we would just pack an extra suitcase for our family to, you know, full of

Mark Flaman: 00:19:01

coloring books and crayons and all sorts of stuff for for small Children that we would just Go out and, and,

Mark Flaman: 00:19:07

and, and give out and might not seem like much, but the, the sentiment was there right to carry that forward.

Mark Flaman: 00:19:13

So, um,

Dennis Collins: 00:19:14

What a great example that sets for, for your employees, for the community.

Dennis Collins: 00:19:19

I mean, that's, you know, that's amazing.

Dennis Collins: 00:19:21

And it's been going on for many, many years and it's, it's a very sizable, uh, impact.

Mark Flaman: 00:19:28

Yeah, they've been doing the foundation gala for about 15 years now, and now what we see is we see, uh,

Mark Flaman: 00:19:36

golden platinum level sponsors who have been with us for a long time, who are starting to follow the lead as well.

Mark Flaman: 00:19:41

And I mean, just the impact.

Mark Flaman: 00:19:44

I heard one time that there was a metric like uh, you know, just by, uh, Grandpa Frank's, uh, foundation

Mark Flaman: 00:19:50

donations, uh, Operation Eyesight was able to restore eyesight to, I can't remember what the number was,

Mark Flaman: 00:19:55

but it was in the tens of thousands of people, um, you know, globally.

Mark Flaman: 00:19:59

So they, yeah, it was, uh, it's pretty cool to be a part of.

Mark Flaman: 00:20:03

It's pretty cool to watch.

Mark Flaman: 00:20:05

Um, and now with, with my position personally in the province of

Mark Flaman: 00:20:08

Saskatchewan, I work, uh, pretty closely with the Frank Flammen Foundation.

Mark Flaman: 00:20:12

I'm in charge of the, uh, I guess I'd be the one in charge of.

Mark Flaman: 00:20:15

Um, you know, getting the donations for the, uh, Saskatchewan charities and stuff like that that we give out.

Mark Flaman: 00:20:20

Um, yeah.

Mark Flaman: 00:20:21

Yeah.

Leah Bumphrey: 00:20:21

What I love about it is here is a family, 10 kids.

Leah Bumphrey: 00:20:25

So we often hear, Oh, 10 kids, oh my goodness, didn't they know where they came from?

Leah Bumphrey: 00:20:29

Like, Oh, that's, that's a lot of kids, but instead of it being a negative, here's the youngest of 10.

Leah Bumphrey: 00:20:35

And.

Leah Bumphrey: 00:20:36

He was inspired, obviously, by how he was raised, one way or the other, to just do fantastic things.

Leah Bumphrey: 00:20:42

And not just for himself, and not just for his family, because, of course, we all want to do good

Leah Bumphrey: 00:20:46

things for our kids, and for our siblings, and for our parents.

Leah Bumphrey: 00:20:49

But he was inspired to go beyond that, in a way that some people would say,

Leah Bumphrey: 00:20:54

you know, break out the riddle, and this guy is a little bit twitchy.

Leah Bumphrey: 00:20:58

He's going to China and getting seed cans full of shovels, and he's into treadmills, and he's.

Leah Bumphrey: 00:21:04

But like the Flaman name and I have to really stress that it's it signifies quality and it signifies Saskatchewan

Leah Bumphrey: 00:21:11

and I feel like I would really like this guy I'd have a beer with him.

Mark Flaman: 00:21:16

Yeah, totally.

Mark Flaman: 00:21:17

It's uh, it really he embodied that Saskatchewan culture of hey, if you're wearing two shirts and your neighbor

Mark Flaman: 00:21:26

doesn't have a shirt you take both shirts off your back and you give them both to your neighbor, right?

Mark Flaman: 00:21:32

It's uh, and it's just like that.

Mark Flaman: 00:21:35

And that's the way that he's always been.

Mark Flaman: 00:21:36

We've always been really proud of him and proud to be part of, of, of what he's built and what he's as well

Mark Flaman: 00:21:40

. Dennis Collins: As well you should as well you should.

Leah Bumphrey: 00:21:42

You touched on that.

Leah Bumphrey: 00:21:43

Oh, sorry.

Leah Bumphrey: 00:21:44

Go ahead, Dennis.

Dennis Collins: 00:21:45

No, I was going to, um, you know, you've obviously developed a family type relationship, not just

Dennis Collins: 00:21:52

with your family, but with your, I'm sure your employees and many, many, many thousands and thousands of others.

Dennis Collins: 00:22:01

But you know, I've had a lot of experience with family owned businesses over my years.

Mark Flaman: 00:22:05

Yeah.

Dennis Collins: 00:22:07

Mark, some of those went really well, and some of those crashed and burned.

Dennis Collins: 00:22:13

You know, it's hard enough to be in business today.

Dennis Collins: 00:22:17

And then we add the family dynamics, which sometimes are not that wonderful.

Dennis Collins: 00:22:23

And some of these businesses fall upon with their own weight on

Dennis Collins: 00:22:28

top of them because they, they couldn't get past the family issues.

Dennis Collins: 00:22:33

How difficult has it been in your experience?

Dennis Collins: 00:22:37

To have this family owned business,

Mark Flaman: 00:22:40

Uh, really not that difficult at all.

Mark Flaman: 00:22:43

And, um, the reason I say not difficult, I mean, of course, there's the thoughts that go on in somebody

Mark Flaman: 00:22:50

who said like 24 hours a day, we're, we're, we're thinking about stuff, we're thinking about work and family.

Mark Flaman: 00:22:54

And of course, people tend to bring a lot of meaning to something that really deserves no meaning at all.

Mark Flaman: 00:22:59

So what we learned how to do, uh, very early on was to separate.

Mark Flaman: 00:23:03

Uh, the the feelings and the meaning that we brought from those feelings from what's actually going on in the business

Dennis Collins: 00:23:11

That's hard to do.

Mark Flaman: 00:23:12

Yeah.

Mark Flaman: 00:23:12

Yeah, exactly.

Mark Flaman: 00:23:13

Yeah, we've put a lot of emphasis on um, you know trying to be a little bit more ahead of the curve in terms

Mark Flaman: 00:23:19

of succession planning and then also How do we not only work well with each other just in the family unit

Mark Flaman: 00:23:25

that's involved in the business but with the employees and kind of to bring them into the conversations

Mark Flaman: 00:23:30

as well, not not necessarily on the topic of succession, but in terms of, hey, you know, by the way, here are

Mark Flaman: 00:23:37

all the things that are coming down the pipe and just keeping everybody from an executive level down, you

Mark Flaman: 00:23:43

know, all in on the same conversation and that there's no surprises.

Mark Flaman: 00:23:46

That's the important part because when , When somebody, if you know, if somebody passes away or they

Mark Flaman: 00:23:51

decide to sell a business and now you've got not only Uh, kids of the

Mark Flaman: 00:23:55

first generation, but then many more cousins of the third generation.

Mark Flaman: 00:24:00

Things get a little bit sticky that way.

Mark Flaman: 00:24:02

And we all seem to be able to learn how to play nice together and stuff like that.

Mark Flaman: 00:24:06

Of course, there's daily challenges, but yeah, no, that's something that we pride ourselves on that we do really well.

Dennis Collins: 00:24:10

That's that is amazing because again, I must say sometimes, uh, Leah and I and Paul Boomer, our

Dennis Collins: 00:24:17

producer, we get called in when some of those things aren't going so well.

Dennis Collins: 00:24:23

There is a dissension in the family, which creates dissension at work.

Dennis Collins: 00:24:28

And that's kind of ugly sometimes.

Dennis Collins: 00:24:31

But what a model that you guys have developed that that's, that's something,

Dennis Collins: 00:24:35

uh, Leah, that I think our, our listeners can really learn from that.

Dennis Collins: 00:24:39

That is amazing that you're able to separate it and speak intelligently

Dennis Collins: 00:24:44

and rationally about it and not letting it undo your family and your business.

Dennis Collins: 00:24:48

I could lose both.

Leah Bumphrey: 00:24:49

But it doesn't happen just automatically.

Leah Bumphrey: 00:24:52

I mean, there's good people.

Leah Bumphrey: 00:24:53

and good businesses where it does the opposite.

Leah Bumphrey: 00:24:56

So what would be your advice, Mark, to a family run business where

Leah Bumphrey: 00:24:59

they're coming to that point where they're having to figure things out?

Mark Flaman: 00:25:02

Yeah, no matter what size they are, I mean, there's, uh, there's one, there's one book

Mark Flaman: 00:25:08

in particular, uh, that we've all read, um, that, that has had a very positive impact on our business.

Mark Flaman: 00:25:14

And it's called Leaving a Legacy by David C. Benthal.

Mark Flaman: 00:25:18

Uh, David C. Benthal, he's the, uh, was, or maybe Potentially currently still is, uh, the chief executive and the

Mark Flaman: 00:25:26

director of operations for the dominion construction group, and we look up to guys like that who have been okay.

Mark Flaman: 00:25:31

Now we're talking about 4th generation.

Mark Flaman: 00:25:34

Everybody sort of the metrics, you know, okay, well, passing a business from the

Mark Flaman: 00:25:36

1st to the 2nd generation really isn't that difficult from the 2nd to the 3rd.

Mark Flaman: 00:25:40

Okay, there are now, you know, I mean, I'll just go out and say it.

Mark Flaman: 00:25:45

Of course, I hold dear my immediate family, but I also now have uh, for other immediate families on their own

Mark Flaman: 00:25:52

that we have to take into account with all the decisions that are made and it's just yeah, it can turn into a mess.

Mark Flaman: 00:25:57

So that's why the rate that a second generation business transfers hands into the third at a much lower rate.

Mark Flaman: 00:26:02

And then from the third to the fourth generation I heard somewhere the metric was like two percent

Mark Flaman: 00:26:07

of family owned businesses winds up in the fourth generation.

Mark Flaman: 00:26:09

I have a son now.

Mark Flaman: 00:26:12

He's almost he's approaching two years old.

Mark Flaman: 00:26:14

He's almost two.

Mark Flaman: 00:26:15

Uh Jack and um, I I think about him and, and, and now what keeps me up at night is.

Mark Flaman: 00:26:23

I'm not sure if my son will be able to have the same experience growing up in a family business as I did,

Mark Flaman: 00:26:30

because like you mentioned, Dennis, things can change on a fly, right?

Mark Flaman: 00:26:35

So.

Dennis Collins: 00:26:35

Certainly can.

Dennis Collins: 00:26:36

Well, if anybody can do it, though, Mark, based on the foundation that you've described to us, I would

Dennis Collins: 00:26:42

say your family has the best chance I've heard of, because usually we're talking about putting out fires.

Dennis Collins: 00:26:47

We're talking about urgent issues that are about to kill the whole business.

Mark Flaman: 00:26:53

Yeah, that's totally, I guess the, the advice I would give is not simply to read that book that

Mark Flaman: 00:27:01

I mentioned, but to also approach, um, a lot of these conversations with a totally calm and open mind.

Mark Flaman: 00:27:09

Um, there was one workshop that we brought in, uh, the folks from unstoppable conversations

Mark Flaman: 00:27:15

in to talk to myself and my four cousins and not one person.

Mark Flaman: 00:27:21

Uh, walked away without getting some something substantial from that two day workshop that we did, and, uh,

Mark Flaman: 00:27:28

it's, it's well worth the money because they're the experts if you can find

Mark Flaman: 00:27:31

a mentor or somebody who's really good at that and, and, and, and.

Mark Flaman: 00:27:36

Isn't so much professional, but they're, you know, to find a mentor who's not afraid to call

Mark Flaman: 00:27:40

somebody on their BS and just say, Hey, here's the way you got it.

Mark Flaman: 00:27:44

But it's totally different from the way that they've got it.

Mark Flaman: 00:27:47

And so, you know, to create that atmosphere where we can just say whatever we're feeling

Mark Flaman: 00:27:51

without having to feel any animosity or anything like that.

Mark Flaman: 00:27:54

A workshop would be would be a really good advice.

Mark Flaman: 00:27:56

Yeah.

Mark Flaman: 00:27:58

We're all in a room crying together for some reason on the outside.

Mark Flaman: 00:28:02

Things look like they're going great, you know, our business and we're growing and, and the employees are

Mark Flaman: 00:28:06

growing with us and we're trying to elevate everybody at the same time.

Mark Flaman: 00:28:09

That's hard enough on its own, but then, you know, to get stuck in a room with, with four people who you

Mark Flaman: 00:28:13

love so dearly and who you've, I mean, they're, I call them my brothers and my sister, we're that close, you know.

Dennis Collins: 00:28:19

So there was something that I saw.

Dennis Collins: 00:28:23

Oh, I'm sorry, Professor Paul Boomer.

Dennis Collins: 00:28:26

Producer Paul Boomer: Yes, I am here.

Dennis Collins: 00:28:27

So you actually kind of already answered this question, Mark.

Dennis Collins: 00:28:31

Uh, my question was, so do you recommend getting somebody from outside the business to help you go

Dennis Collins: 00:28:37

through that succession planning or whatever it is that you might be doing,

Dennis Collins: 00:28:41

uh, that has a large effect on the ongoing operations of the business?

Dennis Collins: 00:28:45

And you kind of answered that right there.

Dennis Collins: 00:28:48

Would you recommend people to maybe try it themselves or no?

Mark Flaman: 00:28:54

No, I, I mean, now this is my personal opinion.

Mark Flaman: 00:28:59

This isn't the opinion of the company, but, uh.

Mark Flaman: 00:29:02

In my experience, uh, if you have, you know, there's that, the classic model of the dad who expects much

Mark Flaman: 00:29:11

from his kids and the kids who grew up in a different version of the

Mark Flaman: 00:29:14

business than what the dad built and they've got differing ideas.

Mark Flaman: 00:29:18

And so if if there is a little bit of friction there, then obviously you want to bring somebody in right away.

Mark Flaman: 00:29:24

Uh, there are very few who can do it on their own.

Mark Flaman: 00:29:27

I would, I would 50 times out of 10, I would recommend bringing outside support into the business

Mark Flaman: 00:29:33

for those conversations because it gives a totally unbiased opinion.

Mark Flaman: 00:29:37

You've got an expert who sees the business for what it is, and they have no feelings attached to that business.

Mark Flaman: 00:29:44

And so they're able to help with making the best calls for.

Mark Flaman: 00:29:47

For, uh, for the decisions that are made and how, how people play together that way.

Mark Flaman: 00:29:51

Producer Paul Boomer: Awesome.

Mark Flaman: 00:29:51

Thank you.

Mark Flaman: 00:29:51

And how Mark, do you think, how do you go about finding that person or that group?

Mark Flaman: 00:29:57

That company, whatever it may be.

Mark Flaman: 00:29:59

Yeah.

Mark Flaman: 00:30:00

So about 10 years ago, we embarked on a mission to, uh, our whole thing at work is getting rid of the stories

Mark Flaman: 00:30:09

that people make up based on the meaning that they bring to something that doesn't mean need to be there.

Mark Flaman: 00:30:15

Um, we got linked up with, uh, I mean, uh, We've all been through the Hoffman Process.

Mark Flaman: 00:30:21

They're an excellent organization.

Mark Flaman: 00:30:23

Uh, and then we also started looking into things like the Landmark Group and Unstoppable Conversations.

Mark Flaman: 00:30:29

And I mean, if you just, you type some words into Google and some lists pop up and then, you know, the hardest

Mark Flaman: 00:30:34

part would probably be vetting the right person for the organization.

Mark Flaman: 00:30:38

We were lucky enough to, to get a couple of people, uh, helping out with, with that part of our business

Mark Flaman: 00:30:45

that we're not afraid to look us dead in the eye and say you're wrong, or

Mark Flaman: 00:30:50

you've got it the wrong way about that person or this process or whatever.

Mark Flaman: 00:30:54

They're not they're not intimidated by us.

Mark Flaman: 00:30:57

They're not worried about us.

Mark Flaman: 00:30:59

These people they've been, you know, uh, they've been on stage with presidents

Mark Flaman: 00:31:03

of countries and and and leaders of organizations much larger than ours.

Mark Flaman: 00:31:10

So to find somebody you I, I wouldn't recommend picking

Mark Flaman: 00:31:14

somebody fresh out of school who is trained to do something like this.

Mark Flaman: 00:31:17

I would recommend finding somebody who has a lot of experience working with not only an organization in the

Mark Flaman: 00:31:22

same industry, uh, but even on top of that, finding somebody who has worked with much larger or much more

Mark Flaman: 00:31:28

significant organizations, because they've, they've seen it all before.

Dennis Collins: 00:31:32

Good point.

Dennis Collins: 00:31:33

That's excellent advice.

Dennis Collins: 00:31:35

Producer Paul Boomer: Thank you for watching or listening to Connect and

Dennis Collins: 00:31:37

Convert with Dennis Collins, Leah Bumphrey and our guest, Mark Flaman.

Dennis Collins: 00:31:41

This was part one of a two part series.

Dennis Collins: 00:31:44

Next episode, Dennis is going to ask about the company's three

Dennis Collins: 00:31:47

pillars, hiring practices and memorable marketing campaigns.

Dennis Collins: 00:31:51

Part two will be the next episode.

Dennis Collins: 00:31:53

For now, I'm producer Paul Boomer.

Dennis Collins: 00:31:55

Have a great week.